Death Siphon and Conversion 5.2

Death Knight
Any of you who have tried Death Siphon and Conversion in the ptr have any feedback on how good they are vs. death pact?
I tried out both, Conversion is a good option, but can not allow you to live through a Bursty class. I.E Warriors, mages and such. Better against sustained damage or if you do a lot of kiting.
It will be interesting to see how Death Siphon goes in 5.2. Blizz posted a few weeks ago that heals that are based on damage done will be calculated before resilience, which would probably make it worthwhile to use for some specs (especially on top of the incoming 50% buff to DS's healing). However, the list of abilities they gave didn't mention Death Siphon, so hopefully they haven't overlooked it.
i doubt they will beat death pact, i don't see death siphon being viable and conversion will be good for duels and maybe weird comps like unholy/ret in 2s
death strike buff for unholy/frost would be nice, means less overall dmg and a little more much needed defense for dks.
Obviously my pvp experience is the 85-89 bracket. But I use death siphon currently and have found it extremely useful. The way I see it, in pvp you have a few options for death runes-

use 2 for an obliterate if you are going for the burst(usually the best use of the runes when you have the 100% chance to crit up).

Death siphon can be used twice since they are each 1 death rune and is useable when you're being kited or taking too much damage. The damage is also competitive since you can get two of them off.

Or 2 necrotic strike vs. healers or classes with a lot of passive healing. Or when fighting someone that is getting healed elsewhere obviously.

I'm not gonna lie, I wreck a lot of face right now in bg's, and while I know the game is going to change drastically at 90 bgs/arena, I still see myself getting the most utility out of siphon. I need the runic power so conversion just doesn't make sense. Death pact, while powerful for one burst attempt is a long cd and just not as available. Considering siphon's usefulness against people kiting us(which is definitely an issue), I just don't see any other option. It damages, heals, and generates runic power at range. Yes please.

My strategy above is obviously oversimplified since we get random runes generated from frost strikes. But the amount of use i've gotten out of siphon before the 50% buff makes me very happy for 5.2.
How do you think Conversion will be for Blood instead of Death Pact for Tanking? (Pve)
Anyone?

Hard to beat the insta Heal of Death Pact as a CD to pop if needed, though..
How do you think Conversion will be for Blood instead of Death Pact for Tanking? (Pve)
Anyone?

Hard to beat the insta Heal of Death Pact as a CD to pop if needed, though..


You kinda need that RP for Runestrike. You would be losing a lot of rune regen on your 5th tier talents.

It's sad that people are complaining about "all these survival" buffs DKs are getting and I doubt they will even get used over Death Pact.
How do you think Conversion will be for Blood instead of Death Pact for Tanking? (Pve)
Anyone?


If you happen to have the Blood 4-peice bonus from the new tier, then yea, conversion is looking pretty sexy. Blood generates a ton of RP as is. Combine that with the fact that they get 15 more each time a Bone Shield charge is consumed, you'll have runic power coming out of your posterior. It's not the big burst heal Death Pact is, but it provides a good sustained HoT, which can be better in certain encounters.
02/27/2013 11:48 AMPosted by Karaahl
conversion is looking pretty sexy.


That is what I was thinking

TY
I need the runic power so conversion just doesn't make sense

Yes.
And with this thought in mind, sitting on runic power for Lichborne heals is also what tanks like to do.
In turn, nothing about blood has changed because Conversion and Lichborne abilities work against each other.
Edited because death pact gets you more hp back quicker. That's needed in tanking as well, and is usually called spike damage.
Heres how its gonna go for unholy dk vs any melee in a 1v1 situation with conversion.
1. Start Duel outbreak
2. Unholy frenzy and come in for 2 festering strikes and 1 plague strike(should be around 60 Rp at this point)
3. Chiliblains to root target and kite with conversion up
4. While kiting pop dps trink and summon gargoyle.
5. Continue kiting and spamming chains of ice while your pets do work(Chains build rp)
6. Keep conversion active as u kite, come in for the occasional plague strike and only use sudden doom procs for dc if your taking heavy dmg
7. Come in to fester strike to keep dots up as needed and repeat steps 5-6.
8. GD
(obviously there's a lot of different skills to use situationally but this is a nice guide line)
I'm curious if Death Siphon will be remotely viable for Dual-wield Frost.

Conversion won't be. 2h can use Conversion. Dual-wield flat out can't. With Death Siphon, though, the damage lost against a single target isn't extreme (over Howling Blast). With enough mastery, the healing (at 150% of the damage) should scale very nicely.

I imagine it'll be usable for PvE now. But can it really pull it off in PvP?
I'm curious if Death Siphon will be remotely viable for Dual-wield Frost.

Conversion won't be. 2h can use Conversion. Dual-wield flat out can't. With Death Siphon, though, the damage lost against a single target isn't extreme (over Howling Blast). With enough mastery, the healing (at 150% of the damage) should scale very nicely.

I imagine it'll be usable for PvE now. But can it really pull it off in PvP?


Assuming the no resilience buff goes through for Death Siphon, I think it will definitely be viable for DW pvp.
I see people citing conversion being good for blood but it will never be used as blood. Slow consistent damage NEVER kills tanks, something is wrong if that's the case.

The main reason that conversion won't be used is because of what it does when it's on and the shear nature of the ability. First off it disables anything other than base RP gain, which means all of the scent of blood RP that we are getting won't be active. Blood has a lot of RP if you do it correctly but it's mostly a function of AMS soaking and scent of blood procs, remove SoB from the equation and you will suddenly find yourself starved for RP.

It's just a negative loop for having it on for such a minor effect. Less RP is less rune strikes and less rune strikes ends up being less death strikes, all of these help contribute to less DPS as well.

Death siphon on the other hand might see more use. It already sees use on select encounters where we can afford to forgo death strike (Death siphon at easily obtainable AP values is more damage per rune than death strike) and on encounters with massive percent damage taken on bosses. The 50% boost to the ability is icing on the cake, expect blood to take it on a few encounters where bosses like windlord exist in 5.2

Death pact is on demand, easy to use and is a massive healing CD. It will still be our go to talent, but death siphon will look a bit more attractive.
I could possibly see a niche for Death Siphon for Blood DK's. If the healing is equal to or better than death strike I could see blood tanks start stacking haste instead of mastery, and using an attack priority thats something like Death Strike x2 > Death Siphon x 4

It would be a much higher dps rotation, but you'd lose a lot of blood shields, so even if the healing is comparable it would probably be spikier for the healers
I think the blood shield from Death Strikes is a ton more valuable than the healing you receive for PvE encounters, making Death Siphon a lot less attractive, as it will mean less Death Strikes available to build up your shield.

In PvP, it will be even worse, since Blood DK damage is abysmal at best, so the heals will likely be terrible. At least you won't have to worry much about the loss of Mastery shields in PvP, since it mostly doesn't do anything w/ 7% maximum heals from Death Strikes.

I'll be sticking w/ Death Pact's burst healing for both, personally.
I know people are saying Conversion won't be viable for Blood DK's in 5.2 but let's consider the number crunching for a second...

3% max HP EVERY second!!! No one says you have to run Conversion for the whole encounter, you can turn it on during heavy damage and back off after. 5 RP to activate and 5 per second is a very low cost when you consider this:

I have 650K HP after buffs and flasks and 3% of that is: 19,500 HP.

So you're telling me that I can passively heal myself for almost 20K HPS ONTOP of my raids healing??? Even if I turn it on for 10 seconds that is 200,000 healing done at the cost of only 50 runic power. Turn it back off and start regening my runes and RP with runestrike until the next heavy damage phase. Let's not forget that you can start spamming death strike and keep regenerating HP + Absorb Shield + 15-20K HPS with Conversion all at once... seems pretty sweet to me.
Hadès, Brings up the reason for my inquiry of Conversion coupled along side the Shield DS gives.. ect.

edit: But Yes DP is nasty good for a Burst self heal.
DK tanks the highest burst of all the tanks.

Conversion: provides no burst healing and drains our resource required for our t5 talents.

Death Pact: resource free and provides us with burst healing.

Will it be an option for fights where there is little to no burst damage? of course, but since the odds of that happening are slim to none, expect Death Pact to stay as the main choice.

If blizzard could find a way to work conversion to not drain resources? it would still be sub-par to Death Pact but not by as much.

Conversion looks okay when you look at it as a per use cost like Hades mentioned, but when you factor in all the rp used for it over the course of say an 7-9 minute boss fight, that is a lot of rp that could be spent to getting free runes and with our mastery going to push into the 200-250% area I highly doubt that the healing from death pact every 2 minutes and the death strikes from those extra runes+blood shield from those will be lower than if you used conversion.

As far as the rp cost and our new 4 set, I can't see many heroic raiding dk's using their 4 set for anything except 1-2 fights at best if there are better itemized slots for 3/5 of the tier slot options.

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