Horde RP confuses me.

Moon Guard
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02/22/2013 01:31 PMPosted by Karob
The Horde is a swagless mass of lunch money.

This is staying.
02/22/2013 01:29 PMPosted by Vespasia
Granted, not every orc should be a die hard and I could see a lot of them being wary of returning to the past, but from what it looks like Garrosh is pretty popular with his people.

Whether he used the best methods or not, he was more than successful in Northrend before taking the title of Warchief. He then proceeded to take the initiative in the war against the Alliance--and never give that initiative up. There's something to be said about his leadership for that, even if it's a myopic detail. My Warsong shaman is a fanboy for good reason.
It seems that every other character is proud to announce how much they detest Garrosh, even though we know that doing so just means your character is beaten or killed.

When you play your character(s), do you have them toe the line or simply state how much they detest the "dumb warchief?" It seems like something that really deals with what the Horde is now.

Tiriel is very, very quiet about it except in private with those close to her. She doesn't openly say things like that, however she has very much taken an ICly hands-off approach to what Garrosh is doing. i.e. She has periods where she just wanders off, generally into a very remote area, and works for other factions because I honestly can't see her backing about 90% of what Garrosh is pushing the Horde towards.

02/22/2013 12:30 PMPosted by Danyl
t does seem odd to me that people are using out of game knowledge that Garrosh will be a future villain to justify IC actions.

Not sure if you've been through the Dominance Offensive questline, but there's honestly no doubt by the middle of it that Garrosh is completely out of his mind. I don't want to give away spoilers, but he starts doing things that are just...they're obviously stupid, obviously bad for the Horde, and obviously not working. And refuses to acknowledge it. He's getting his closest comrades killed, and apparently doesn't have enough neurons to figure out that he's sticking his hand into a pot of boiling water repeatedly. It's not a stretch to go through the questline and come out going, "Yeah, we need to put this guy down for our own sake. Screw the Alliance, this guy is going to get us all killed or possessed."

oh wait
I don't know if this si the "correct" way to go about it

but advic just...keeps his mouth shut. he finds garrosh a hotheaded warmonger who is not only going to destroy the horde, but his own people as well. however, advic is not stupid. he won't speak out because he knows it means death...but back home in the undercity he makes his distaste for garrosh clear.

whenever the rebellion begins in full, advic will be there on the front lines fighting against hellscream, but until then, he stays on the down-low.
This thread makes me feel as if I'm wrong and bad to have characters who just don't like him, lol.
The kinds of people who are so obviously and publically Anti-Garrosh in their RP really bother me, and my opinion of such a large amount of people having characters like that is them trying to fit into this current fad of what's "cool" for people to RP, which is entirely being a rebel to him. I'm fine with people being Anti-Garrosh, but I don't think it should be taken to a level that some people have taken it to. If so many people were THAT against him, then there would be a rebellion already and not whenever the time Siege of Orgrimmar takes place. And I agree that some people probably RP this way because they already know there is going to be a rebellion against him, so they just set up their characters to already be on the winning side of things to come without any further development. For some people, such as those who wanted Thrall to stay Warchief, it's simply a matter of them hating Garrosh since Cata and are still rambling on about their hatred from the start.

Currently, my character is on the neutral side of things and only helps either side if it's profitable to her in some way. Around the start of Cataclysm, she was entirely for Garrosh and supported him every step of the way, even passionately debating with others as to why Garrosh was correct and what he was doing was right; I remember during the bombing of Theramore she was preaching to others in the crater that the mana bomb wasn't wrong and that it got what it deserved. Garrosh has been aggressively attacking the Alliance, and since the start of WoW, my character has felt that the battles between them and the Horde have gone on for too long and too "polite". It wasn't until 5.1 that she began to stop supporting him, as she was there when Vol'jin was attacked and she doesn't agree with leaders within the Horde fighting each other to the point of death. Besides, even if it's a Troll who has been speaking out against Garrosh since him being leader and has threatened to kill him, there's still a chance it could be Lor'themar executed, especially with how sneaky the attack on Vol'jin was.

In game, Evelysa used to argue against those who openly insulted and spoke bad of Garrosh. She's even gotten into physical fights with some of them. But now if she happens to be around any of those people (some of which are friends) she especially tries to find a way out of the situation if they're in any major cities (especially Orgrimmar) and distance herself from them until they're not in public any more. She just stands around and looks around awkwardly until she can get away from them, because she doesn't entirely want to appear to be associated with those that want to kill leaders. I feel in game the faction leaders of the Horde all deal with their dislike of Garrosh in various ways, and Lor'themar for me is the best one, which is to just nod your head when Garrosh is talking and basically go, "Yeah, uh-huh, right.", before going away and secretly planning against him.
02/22/2013 02:51 PMPosted by Kunocati
This thread makes me feel as if I'm wrong and bad to have characters who just don't like him, lol.

It isn't about liking him or not liking him. Standing in Orgrimmar and declaring you think Garrosh is the worst leader/orc/whatever is like yelling you have a gun on a passenger airline. The reason for that statement doesn't matter, all eyes are on you, and you are now the enemy of everyone in earshot. They might kill you, they might not, but you are not going to escape unscathed. Your character's opinion on Garrosh is something that would stay internalized or in extremely hushed whispers in earshot of Orcs or anywhere in Orgrimmar, unless you don't value your safety.
Are people longing for Thrall Lebowski to return or something? That would be a really boring Horde.
I usually just leave the RP if they make a comment like that.

Shows that they are really incompetent in terms of lore.
My Orc has gone from Garrosh-wary-but-loyal to secretly anti-Garrosh since 5.1's conclusion. He's a Frostwolf and more of a Thrall/Drek'thar/Varok Saurfang guy.

He doesn't go to Orgrimmar IC anymore out of fear that Garrosh's Blackrock goons will find out about his true loyalties and arrest/kill him. Not that he's stupid enough to openly proclaim his hatred of Garrosh even in Silvermoon where he's spending a lot of his IC days lately, but he's paranoid.
I usually just leave the RP if they make a comment like that.

Shows that they are really incompetent in terms of lore.

Do you still judge them incompetent even if they acknowledge the consequences for their IC statements?
I really hope Vol'jin gets to be Warchief. Or really anything but an Orc. Would be a nice change of pace.
02/22/2013 03:38 PMPosted by Kunocati
Do you still judge them incompetent even if they acknowledge the consequences for their IC statements?

If they're willing for their character to die IC, then no they are not incompetent.
Clearly the best war chief will be garona's child. Or did they write him out.

I must do a lore refresher, since I have no idea where thrall is at the moment either.
02/22/2013 03:22 PMPosted by Grev
Are people longing for Thrall Lebowski to return or something? That would be a really boring Horde.


I'd love a Saurfang/Vol'jin/Lor'themar Horde, personally. I'd like a Horde where the leadership knows there's a line, and more importantly, knows what it is to have crossed that line and done unforgivable things. I want a leader who has had his hands dirty before, and as a result knows the consequences of his actions - but also understands that sometimes there are no good choices. And ultimately, the leader is the one who bears the burden for that.

I don't want a leader who enjoys making those terrible decisions. I don't want a leader who runs head-first into making those terrible decisions. I want a leader who actually understands that some things are wrong, even if they're necessary. I think that makes for a more interesting experience.
02/22/2013 03:51 PMPosted by Tiriél

My vote.
A balcony on the fringe of a dead chunk-of-planet that was re-purposed by folks from another world made of magic gauze and sentient arcane blast spam is, thankfully, a very far place from the Valley of Strength.

The distance is one that you saw taken advantage of due to the way the night's discussion segued away from the overall discussion of "Hey culture exposure."

Frustration stems from veering off topic though. Something to get mean about in the future.

We have different experiences though; we've spoken about that in the past. The way the storyline has developed so far in the expansion among the Horde, there are some instances where we can somewhat permit dissenting conversation.

You've seen more anti-Hellscream than I have.

Couple spoilers below. Disregard them if you haven't gotten to these points yet. Scroll until you see bolded text at the top of the screen.

All good? Great.

With the Divine Bell it's pretty clear that Lor'themar wants to strike out on his own. Yes he's seeing things in more of a spectrum of "Horde" and "Not Horde", but the man's more than a little pissed over what's happened.

He hasn't overtly stated that he holds Garrosh as much responsible for the events of Dalaran as he does Jaina, and in fact most of the blame on his end is squared more toward her and the Alliance's "bigotry, racism" etc.

Personally I feel the reaction was justified. The Silver Covenant came off as rabid dogs when they were given the go-ahead to act as they did, but then again you have a handful of a city's citizens versus the outright vaporization of an entire city of men, women and children.

That's neither here nor there. The blood elves aren't happy right now. Presently I believe they're funneling their anger more into Jaina and Dalaran than Hellscream, but it's a given that tensions between East and West have never completely been smoothed over.

For the Trolls, I'm amazed they're even permitted in Orgrimmar anymore. Gold is gold, and a hand with cash jingling away in it is just as good with two fingers as it is with four. Commerce aside, they're the only people in the Horde who have a justifiable reason to be frothing at Hellscream.

They do, after all, have Kor'kron squatting on the islands they've bled, killed and died for. For some handful of individuals in the know (as it stands I'm unsure of how much about Vol'jin's whereabouts and the knowledge thereof are immediately accessible to IC-friendly knowledge), he ordered a hit on their tribal chieftan.

He also nearly succeeded. But even if people do know about it, he did tell us to keep a low profile (if any) as to his condition. Why yes, he's dead. Nothing to see here. Disregard Chen and his magic lifebooze.

I'm done with spoilers now.

Similarly, tauren could be angry at him for what happened with Cairne. You have to realize that Cairne did challenge him to a battle. Hellscream accepted. Bloodhoof lost. Again, how much of the situation people are actually aware of remains to be seen.

Magatha worked some bad, bad juju on Gorehowl. Garrosh was, understandably, pissed off at the woman and thus Jihad Wednesday, the Horde's most celebrated weekly holiday, was dedicated to the Grimtotem tribe. The treachery cost him a legitimate fight and jilted the glory that would've otherwise been claimed from beating Cairne.

I can't say the Grimtotem didn't have it coming, though.

But as it stands, at first glance, hey. He killed good ol' Cairne. In a fight. That Cairne brought up. It's okay to be a sore loser for a bit, just understand that that's really what it's coming from.

No, Hellscream isn't entirely cool with nature but let's be honest, the Horde hasn't been as green as it likes to think, either. Ashenvale was a bad PR move in Vanilla-time that only got worse with Azshara on top of it.

There are other examples, such as the use of zeppelins or the inclusion of the Sin'dorei and Forsaken, but again these are things and people that have been around for years at this point.

Goblins have little to no reason to hate Garrosh because hey, look, the Horde's more open to technological advancement and utilizing machinery under Hellscream than it ever has been under Thrall. With Orgrimmar's renovations, the guy pretty much signed their racial paycheck.

Forsaken hate everything so their reasons are probably a dime a dozen. I will say that if they hate him for being an iron-fisted douchebag, they're probably just raw that he's overshadowing the Lich Queen for now. Enjoy that plot armor.

Huojin we can assume are pretty cool with the guy considering that their philosophies mesh with what the Horde is doing right now; ends justifying means and so forth.

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