DKs still broken as heck

Death Knight
I accept that DKs are gods of soloing instances and solo cata raids when everyone else can't solo cata raid trash.

I accept that they compensate no shields for increased self healing.

I even accept that they have been top DPS for three expansions now.

What I don't accept is why they are exempt from vengeance and instead are given base damages far superior to any other tank class in the game.

Why is it that a DK can PVP as blood spec and annihilate people because his damage output is high and he barely takes damage. Is that the intent? Is it the "hero class" excuse again used to make someone inherently better than any other class?
alt - qq.
No recent raids done on this character and you don't do PvP.

Why are you complaining?
02/26/2013 09:41 PMPosted by Dévil
I even accept that they have been top DPS for three expansions now.


Anyone, is this true? Not that it matters much. Are we talking PvE or PvP here? My personal experience has been Druid>Warr/DK/Monk>Pally as far as damage goes this expansion.

I hope your not saying Frost is top DPS atm, cos it's middle of the pack, where all specs should be.

What I don't accept is why they are exempt from vengeance and instead are given base damages far superior to any other tank class in the game.


So not really sure what your trying to say here. DK's use vengeance like any other tank. It's one of the ways Dk's solo things, if you can't beat an enrage timer, go and stand in some fire and reduce mitigation to build up vengeance.

02/26/2013 09:41 PMPosted by Dévil
Is that the intent? Is it the "hero class" excuse again used to make someone inherently better than any other class?


This has never been the case. "Hero" class apparently means starts at higher level and uses weird resources. It doesn't mean they are better than everyone else. Blizzard just overtuned DK's by a long way when they were intoduced, and player's got pissed off (not without reason) and threw qq at the "hero" class.
I accept that DKs are gods of soloing instances and solo cata raids when everyone else can't solo cata raid trash.

I accept that they compensate no shields for increased self healing.

I even accept that they have been top DPS for three expansions now.

What I don't accept is why they are exempt from vengeance and instead are given base damages far superior to any other tank class in the game.

Why is it that a DK can PVP as blood spec and annihilate people because his damage output is high and he barely takes damage. Is that the intent? Is it the "hero class" excuse again used to make someone inherently better than any other class?


The thing that annoys me the most about these topics are how they judge DKs in a vacuum. All three of our specs function and perform differently. If you are going to complain about our class at least do so with some regards to truth and accuracy.

For one, we are not "TOP DPS". We are, IIRC, middle of the pack. For another, we are not the only class that can solo raids either.
Perhaps it's because my friend and I just recently started running 2's (on my HPal), but we pretty much /highfive at the start of the match when we see a blood DK on the other team.

Do they begin doing absurd amounts of damage at higher ratings?
I accept that DKs are gods of soloing instances and solo cata raids when everyone else can't solo cata raid trash.

I accept that they compensate no shields for increased self healing.

I even accept that they have been top DPS for three expansions now.

What I don't accept is why they are exempt from vengeance and instead are given base damages far superior to any other tank class in the game.

Why is it that a DK can PVP as blood spec and annihilate people because his damage output is high and he barely takes damage. Is that the intent? Is it the "hero class" excuse again used to make someone inherently better than any other class?


No offense but you really have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to the whole vengeance thing. Vengeance was removed from pvp thus doing away with most of the damage a blood dk can do in pvp. now we're only useful for flag carrying in pvp terms. In terms of pve, alot of our abilities are based on weapon % damage. As a dk i'm rocking a 2h weapon when I tank where as your standard tank such as a pally is only using a 1h and a shield. we do more damage in that sense perhaps yes but we also take more damage since we lack a shield but as you said that's why we have stronger self heals. There's a huge difference between a 2h and a 1h.
Posted by Dévil
I even accept that they have been top DPS for three expansions now.

Anyone, is this true? Not that it matters much. Are we talking PvE or PvP here? My personal experience has been Druid>Warr/DK/Monk>Pally as far as damage goes this expansion.

I hope your not saying Frost is top DPS atm, cos it's middle of the pack, where all specs should be.


I thought Aff Lock was top DPS
Posted by Dévil
I even accept that they have been top DPS for three expansions now.

Anyone, is this true? Not that it matters much. Are we talking PvE or PvP here? My personal experience has been Druid>Warr/DK/Monk>Pally as far as damage goes this expansion.

I hope your not saying Frost is top DPS atm, cos it's middle of the pack, where all specs should be.


I thought Aff Lock was top DPS


That or <insert mage spec depending on fight >, fury, or combat/assn.

I think on the fight were were are even close to the top thanks to mechanics we are still like #3-4.
um... Blood dk being called good in any arena? First time ive heard that since launch. Blood dps in pvp is steady, but very low. Not really good for arena.
02/26/2013 09:41 PMPosted by Dévil
I even accept that they have been top DPS for three expansions now.


wat
I accept that DKs are gods of soloing instances and solo cata raids when everyone else can't solo cata raid trash. - Go look at the 80-85 twink wars and such.

I accept that they compensate no shields for increased self healing. - true

I even accept that they have been top DPS for three expansions now. - LOLWUT? Not even remotely true

What I don't accept is why they are exempt from vengeance and instead are given base damages far superior to any other tank class in the game. - Not really....

Why is it that a DK can PVP as blood spec and annihilate people because his damage output is high and he barely takes damage. Is that the intent? Is it the "hero class" excuse again used to make someone inherently better than any other class? - If you lose to blood in PvP as any class / spec outside of rogue atm you are just bad
You know the worst part about this stuff?

That Blizzard actually seem to be listening.

We got another Blood DK PvP nerf not too long ago.

I don't exactly mind. Purge Blood from PvP entirely, for all I care. But - for the most part, that has already been done. They can win duels against some classes, they show up in 2s arenas sometimes (at the lowest rating), they can be an FC (and aren't even that great at it), but they aren't a serious PvP spec.

They're walking bricks, shambling around the battlefield, tickling people with a wet noodle that only looks like a sword. It's played by people who are terrified of dying in PvP.

But here we still are, with people still whining about Blood DKs who run around "annihilating people" - and Blizzard still waste their time adjusting it.
02/26/2013 09:41 PMPosted by Dévil
I even accept that they have been top DPS for three expansions now.


Hahahaha, ha.

Oh wait, you're serious? We weren't top dps anytime during Cata nor have we been in MoP. Only fight that we're top on is Tsulong.

And you act like soloing old content means anything.
02/26/2013 09:41 PMPosted by Dévil
I even accept that they have been top DPS for three expansions now.


ITT the last 3 expansions were all Wrath. Maybe even just pre-Ulduar Wrath.
There's definitely a trick to it, but yes, Blood can put pressure on if it needs to, but certainly not to the degree of the DPS specs. I would say they edge other tank specs out in offensive capability though.
Top DPS for three expansions now? Uh, no, especially if you're talking PvE. PvP depends on the season, but yes we have been top damage in some select PvP seasons. (I am talking Frost/Unholy, not Blood).

Don't let anybody tell you any different but people who actively play Blood in PvP are scumbags (unless they actually flag carry). People play Blood because they know they will have a hard time dying to unorganized players and can ride the gravy train to EZ street. Almost nothing in this game is easier than playing a Blood DK in world PvP, random BGs or against highly unorganized people in say 2v2 arena.

Again if you come across someone who plays Blood legitimately it's because they are an awful player, unless as stated it's specialized flag carrying (which warriors do better).

In organized play however blood is an absolute joke. The damage you cite is highly exaggerated and most blood DKs in PvP are mongoloids anyway. Kite them force them to use frost runes and then sit on them for a bit. Continue and eventually you're going to win. You might not like how long it takes in say an arena, but you aren't going to lose to one unless you play the game of straight up attacking one without any sort of kiting.

Whenever I run into a blood DK in arena I know it's a free win. When I run into them in random BGs I just ignore them because they aren't doing anything remotely useful on most maps. When I run into them in world PvP I just cc/kite them, mount and then proceed to leave. They simply aren't worth my time and they are wasting their time never getting better at the specs they should be playing in PvP.
02/26/2013 11:53 PMPosted by Vinjence
Do they begin doing absurd amounts of damage at higher ratings?


No. No they do not.
I accept that DKs are gods of soloing instances and solo cata raids when everyone else can't solo cata raid trash. - Go look at the 80-85 twink wars and such.

I accept that they compensate no shields for increased self healing. - true

I even accept that they have been top DPS for three expansions now. - LOLWUT? Not even remotely true

What I don't accept is why they are exempt from vengeance and instead are given base damages far superior to any other tank class in the game. - Not really....

Why is it that a DK can PVP as blood spec and annihilate people because his damage output is high and he barely takes damage. Is that the intent? Is it the "hero class" excuse again used to make someone inherently better than any other class? - If you lose to blood in PvP as any class / spec outside of rogue atm you are just bad


Actually it's very easy to lose to blood in duels because they slowly drain you down while you do no damage at all.

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