Monk Review doesn't address the damage nerfs

Monk
03/08/2013 01:10 PMPosted by Monkæy
Ultimately though, it still doesnt not address the argument of why our new spell translates into a Direct DPS reduction when used against the target you are currently attacking. Mechanically this is a bull!@#$ strategy for the devs to use to discourage single target use. If anything it should not effect your specials, the marginal increase in damage from splitting your autoattack into 2x60% sources does not justify 40% reduction in Chi attacks.


This is neither a bug nor a "BS strategy." The tooltip is badly worded and fails to specify that Storm, Earth, and Fire is intended solely as a cleave ability. The tooltip should clarify this, and the ability should probably automatically cancel your clone (or make it switch targets) if you attack the same target as your clone for more than, say, 5 seconds. I agree completely that the ability is badly explained in game, but it's simply not intended to be used as a single-target damage increase and should never be used as such. In the meantime, create a macro for "/cancelaura Storm, Earth, and Fire" and use it any time you find you're attacking the same target as a clone.

And FYI target dummy damage is down roughly 10k from 5.1


Then I suspect you've not yet fully adapted to the changes. Are you considering 1) the fact that you need to redo your stat/reforging priority with the new mastery, 2) the fact that we gain more from raid buffs, especially haste and mastery, with the new setup, and 3) the need to coordinate TEB with Energizing Brew, trinket procs, etc., now that it stacks to 20 and therefore gives you 10 stacks of 'padding' in which to delay its use? I found that my target dummy damage self-buffed remains about the same, but my target dummy damage raid buffed went up by about 5k.

The change to our mastery hasn't affected our rotation at all. The only thing that's changed now is TeB pooling because it can stack past 10.


That's not entirely true. We need as well to integrate our level 30 talents (probably chi wave, possibly zen sphere, rarely chi burst) into our rotation on as close to cooldown as possible without wasting energy or delaying RSK. The ability to stack TEB past 10 is a bigger change than you let on, as well, because it makes it easier to coordinate with trinket procs and cooldowns; we can, for example, plan ahead so as to ensure nearly 100% TEB uptime during Hero. That's a fairly large change to our scaling and raid performance, and I think its implications for our rotation and playstyle are larger, albeit subtler, than you suggest.
was really upset when they hotfixed the damage done by Tiger Stance and never made any mention of it on anything official (Ghostcrawler made mention of it on Twitter, but that was it).


However, like I mentioned above, when they make a major change like they did (10% less damage is a huge nerf) and never mention it. . .that makes me mad. I would just like to see some official response to such a massive nerf and why it wasn't put in the patch during all the testing if it is so important.


Amen I feel exactly the same way
Ultimately you now just have to weave in an extra global to remove your spirit if your on the same target. Skillcap directly effected. good show bizzard
Ultimately you now just have to weave in an extra global to remove your spirit if your on the same target. Skillcap directly effected. good show bizzard


Using a /cancelaura macro doesn't trigger the GCD. Again, I agree that the ability is implemented somewhat clumsily, but it's entirely possible to work around that implementation without hurting your DPS.
So whats being said here is that windwalker is terrible, the priority is now too hard, and the nerf was "massive".

Now lets get the facts straight:

With chi wave/chi burst being in the priority now (even with the bugs) you should see no more than a 4% nerf on your dps (in a really bad case).
Being one of the highest single target damage and pretty damn good 3 target cleave classes right now, i'm not sure if the sky is falling yet.

A twitter post is official. They don't need to put a wax stamp on it to make it any more justified.
Most people fail to realize that with the new 5.2 raid gear, most of it grants heavy mastery, even without the reorigination trinket. It make seem like we went down for now, but once we start getting the new gear, with the tier bonus (10 energy orbs), it won't be that bad.
So whats being said here is that windwalker is terrible, the priority is now too hard, and the nerf was "massive".

Now lets get the facts straight:

With chi wave/chi burst being in the priority now (even with the bugs) you should see no more than a 4% nerf on your dps (in a really bad case).
Being one of the highest single target damage and pretty damn good 3 target cleave classes right now, i'm not sure if the sky is falling yet.

A twitter post is official. They don't need to put a wax stamp on it to make it any more justified.


A twitter post is FAR from official. Maybe, just maybe, a post from Blizzard themselves. But a post from GC, who has 40.4k followers, does not inform the game population as a whole. And sure, the potential for DPS to suffer "no more than a 4% nerf" is there. However, just because the damage is close to where it was does not give them permission to omit any mention of a nerf like they implemented. Like I made clear, I don't mind the nerf. It's the concept of not informing the entire game population that it was coming. I don't care what anybody says, a 10% reduction is a massive enough change that we deserved to be informed. The overall damage may not be far from where it was, but it's the concept of changing without telling that bothers me.
Even if they had BUFFED it 10%, I'd still be upset as to why we were never told. They tested this patch for months and hotfixed this on day one. Come on, now. That's nuts.

Edit: Misspelling
They hotfixed 10% of our damage in stance went from 20% more damage to 10%...along with 5% of the flying tiger kick. And we have no OH !@#$ button except bad karma and fortifying brew and the glyph for fortifying brew if you face druids and warrs to help out but then you give up the range for bad karma. Sooooooooo monks are maybe only a little bit more viable. But not nearly as much as other classes are right now.
A twitter post is FAR from official. Maybe, just maybe, a post from Blizzard themselves. But a post from GC, who has 40.4k followers, does not inform the game population as a whole. And sure, the potential for DPS to suffer "no more than a 4% nerf" is there. However, just because the damage is close to where it was does not give them permission to omit any mention of a nerf like they implemented. Like I made clear, I don't mind the nerf. It's the concept of not informing the entire game population that it was coming. I don't care what anybody says, a 10% reduction is a massive enough change that we deserved to be informed.


Sure it does. They're the developers and they do what they want.

There's no written rule that says they have to report every change to the players.

Since you knew it happened i'm not sure why anyone is complaining. Most players wont care, or even notice it.
However, just because the damage is close to where it was does not give them permission to omit any mention of a nerf like they implemented


Sure it does. They're the developers and they do what they want.

There's no written rule that says they have to report every change to the players.


By your logic, patch notes aren't required either. We should just know what the changes are when we log in after it's been implemented. If you're okay with that, that's great. I hold nothing against you for not caring that we weren't told. :) However, I personally don't enjoy finding out such a change on my own.
By your logic, patch notes aren't required either. We should just know what the changes are when we log in after it's been implemented. If you're okay with that, that's great. I hold nothing against you for not caring that we weren't told. :) However, I personally don't enjoy finding out such a change on my own.


It's not like Rising sun kick became a chi generator.
It's such a small thing that people are getting all worked up about when it's not even a big deal.

Be dramatic if you want to, but my observation is overreaction.

I mean.. it's not like they DIDNT post them.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/8953693/Patch_52_Hotfixes_March_5-3_6_2013

/facepalm
Lollin' at the blind faith is developers with a 5-year long track record of treating bad calculations as isolated incidents.

Ghostcrawler can use his office jargon to convince his clowns that his recipe for crap sandwiches is as good as a filet mignon


Who is displaying "blind faith"? I get that you're angry about the monk changes; your short, content-free posts in every monk thread you can find make that clear. No one is relying upon "office jargon" or bedazzled by Ghostcrawler's big words. Some of us are attempting to understand the implications of the revamp Windwalkers received in 5.2; others, like you, are so irritated that all you do is complain and accuse us of sycophantic Ghostcrawler worship simply because we're not so quick to dismiss an entire patch on account of the fact that it requires some adjustments in playstyle.
^
And in here ... I see PvE heroes ... (usually use a different name for them but I'll be somewhat civil) who probably don't even PvP AT ALL ... and have absolutely no idea how much impact this re-balancing of DPS will affect PvP.

WW Monk would be a strong class in PvP with the recent changes if they didn't overtune the mastery and left the Stance of the Fierce Tiger damage alone, but now that we ate a 10% overall nerf on top of the RSK nerf, TEB is WAY too important to take someone down ... and that would be just fine IF it didn't take so long to build up to that damage.

Now it's going to be try to survive initial CC & Burst, try to survive while finishing up 10 stacks of TEB to have threatening damage, and then hope you don't get CC'd during your TEB while you attempt to kill a target during that uptime.

This is going to not only gimp WW Monks in Arena especially, but it's also going to limit more comps due to the necessity to survive for x amount of time to build up TEB in order to actually have hopes of killing someone.

In 5.1 it was pressure them with adequate damage until you can TEB and try to finish the job because damage was actually pressuring enough to lower health pools just enough that a properly timed TEB would work well. Now I'm dreading even trying Monk in this next season because of a very poorly thought out "fix" to their OVERTUNED mastery and the lack of sustained pressure. I'm very willing to wager it'll be like trying to kill an easily topped off class due to low pressure in 15 seconds with "uber damage". What a lame, trash, gimmicky mechanic. Not fun, IMO.
As Noobuh pointed out, the PVP problem monks faced (and still face) was not addressed, namely sustained damage. Nimble brew doesn't really address this, it only allows for the activation of our ACTIVE Def CDs. What monks need is a PASSIVE damage mitigation buff. Some ideas that I would like to see would be WW monks given Dematerialize. That along with maybe a buff to the recently nerfed Tiger Stance, say move that 10% damage decrease into a 10% damage taken reduction would be MARVELOUS.

Edit Grammar >_<
Bump
The problem with WW damage is that our burst has a ramp up time, so in order to use it we have to survive and outlive other classes that just pop their burst cds as soon as the game starts.
I think alot of people really upset about the 10 percent damge buff reduction from tiger stance. But if you think about its fair. imagine with 4percent per stack. you dont need to wait for 10 stack 5 stack is good enough to get 20 percent more damge. that about 30 sec.. with 20 +20 = 40 percent from tiger stance before nerf. is that just too much dmage. I play a monk but that just asking too much. Smart players dont just wait for 10 stacks they figure out what better to do. In pvp when healer is 50 percent hp.. i would not wait for all my stack to used it .. i used it earlier to get that extra push to kill.

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