Treasure Room is Far Too Confusing

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Honestly, my only issue with the treasure room is the strength of the monsters inside.

The people who NEED the Elder Charms are people who are ilvl below 480.

The monsters hit like trucks and have 800k health.

My ilvl468 warlock takes like a full minute just to kill one of them.

I've only done it once so far so maybe it varies from instance to instance. But ... when I did it, there were no monsters at all in the first room. And there were dozens of chests. When I went in, I had 4 or 5 Elder Coins left. When I came out, I was at the cap (20).

So from in my experience, it wasn't a problem. There were plenty of coins available without fighting anything.
they have some chests where 5 of them are lined up for the pickings. i can see the skeleton key having some use for 1 charm. pair that with levitate you can get pretty far.

but that free key cost 1 charm but seems worth it.
The first door?

Did you use the lever? I've noticed in chat people miss it.

..there are levers? v.v
Was wondering why the Treasure room was so small and seemed so easy. I opened every chest and ended up hanging around. Did not realize there were multiple doors.


Yeah. I almost did the same thing until the very end until I noticed the lever next to the stairs when my timer was almost up. I feel ya on this one. At least I know for next time, lolz.
I love the treasure room. Leave it alone as it is.
I spent my entire first run in the first room and came out with over 400g, ~24 parchments, around 15 motes of harmony, 3 Shan'ze stones, 15 Elder Charms, and a few greens.

Potentially not the most lucrative strategy, but really cleaning up that first room and then of course finding keys to open the chests at the end after time runs out worked pretty well.

The first time I went through I did not know about lver to get through first door... I ran around and got lots of gold, parchments, a few greens, and about 7 keys (I thought it was a heaven level or something).. After that intial run, the last 3 or 4 runs the only thing I got was about 100-150 gold, a few parchments and just one key at the end. The last time I did not even receive a key at the end.. so sad... I left w/o even opening 1 chest
I've only done one treasure trip and i got a good haul:
2 Shanze Ritual Stones
LOTS of elder charms
Some items to boost my rep with sunreaver
and some other goodies!
And that was just in one run, but i think it should be 10 miniutes, instead of 5, so you can get more loot :D
Lucky for me I dced during it only to return with no chests but no timer! Lucky a fine young panda you can talk to lets you out.

Checked out ever corner and now I know that place like the back my hand, o0o that wasnt there before... *picks at hand*
03/14/2013 02:05 PMPosted by Xanzül
I was very frustrated when I first posted it, but I have learned from this thread. Unlike some of you who just keep insisting any claim things could be better is the worse crime someone could make. Though you clearly think everything Blizzard does is already perfect based on the posts I have read of yours. I wonder what you do when they do change something, admitting it needed adjustment....

No one is saying things can't be better. All anyone said is that just because you don't like certain things doesn't make it bad and for some reason you can't handle that.

I forgot that you are the one who gets to determine who can post....
So it's poor design because it's too hard for you to click on a lever? Do you just want blizzard to mail you gold daily so you don't have to actually do anything? Oh wait opening the mailbox is poor design can't have that!

It is a poor design because it doesn't tell you when you do well in spite of reaching the end. It is not good because it does not provide subtle hints toward a lever, etc. The only messages you get is "get to the end" and "time ran out". Those indicate you are a failure when the latter happens since the former was the goal.

Hah! Well... yeah maybe I just got lucky. Haven't done my run this week, and now I'm getting nervous. ;)

And this is why you probably still think it is a good design. Try it as a class without movement speed or self heals and then try going through the second room and come back and tell us how much "fun" it is.

I watched a Druid youtube vod first and thought "oh that doesn't look too bad". Tried it as a DK and what a joke. I apologise for not having cat form, stealth and sprint - let alone a self heal.

Designing self-only treasure grabs and *not* normalising speed is ... well ... how do you guys keep making the same colossal design errors after SO many years? Do you not play-test for fun anymore?

Why have real mobs in it at all? You don't have time to kill them so they just kill you unless you can get away.

Honestly - for an expansion that fixed so many previous mistakes, to go and throw something like this in just boggles my mind.
This time I headed toward the door at the other end much quicker only to find it locked. How do I open it? No idea, so I run around looking. I even looted the big box in the middle that looked different than the others and it is still locked.

lever on left side of the hand rails
I looted most the treasures. Found a lever by the stairs I left the room with about 2 seconds left because I was running back and forth looking for more hidden treasures. So some wonder whats so great about it ? Well I left with 12 lucky elder charms... and a lot of gold. Its easy just be smart about it.... doors lock find a lever! And loot loot loot them chests!

For sure, and that's all reasonable. You can say "once a week" and be mostly correct, my intent was to correct a common misconception that it's literally 1 key per week. You can argue it's close enough, but my goal is accuracy in information.

That's fair. It is good for anyone curious to know the exact situation.

03/13/2013 06:54 PMPosted by Bashiok

I think it's reasonable to expect a tutorial or practice run on everything in the game, because in general we're fairly experience-focused with everything we do. We tend to go away from punishing mechanics, we try to make things clear and concise, and we want the experience to be fun at every moment. That said, this is running into a room of free stuff to pick up, and even if you only open three of four chests, that's three or four chests of free stuff for 5 minutes of just running around. Obviously at the end of that you may be frustrated that you didn't do better, but I don't think that means we need to rush out and make a tutorial. It's ok that you didn't do well your first time. Next time you'll do better. It's free stuff. It's supposed to be high-tension, and everyone that goes in thinks they can do better next time. Letting people discover how something works is OK sometimes, not everything needs a tutorial, especially when it's a piece of content for level-capped characters that's essentially for fun and doesn't directly increase the power of your character.

Hey now, my first time I killed the boss and got out with Tenwu. But of course, I went to youtube to look this stuff up before my first time. I'm not sure that's a good thing for players to feel like is the *right* approach. And right now, that is very much the right approach. You are simply cheating yourself if you don't make use of third party resources on this.

I'm also not a fan of the term "tutorial." People hear "tutorial" and they think of pop ups, NPC's offering tips, and the like. It can be fun to explore yourself. It's not fun when exploration feels punishing to your weekly five-minute long opportunity.

I admit, if this were just a series of rooms linked together with no major goal other than hopefully opening chests, I'd feel different. In large part, my feelings about this are influenced by the fact that they also decided to attach achievement parts to it. Five minutes a week to try to learn the place for these achievements just feels obnoxious.

But that's true of anything. You're at a disadvantage for anything if you don't look at a guide first. And certainly if you're an achievement hunter you would. If you're just a casual player you might jump in, go WHAT IS HAPPENING and run around furiously trying to open chests ... and that's kind of what it should be like. It should be high stress. There are supposed to be traps and events to slow you down that you aren't aware of. If you didn't open a ton of chests that's ok, it's free stuff even if you only open 1.

Yes you're at a disadvantage if you don't buy the strategy guide for every new game that comes out, but discovery of the game, its mechanics, trying to interpret the design intent, and overcoming those challenges is part of what makes games fun. At least for me. If you want to look up videos for everything before trying them though you can.

I think the disconnect here is if you feel like this is a piece of content that owes you something; a minimum reward level and you feel cheated if you're not allowed to achieve that. It's not. It's free stuff that isn't directly related to character growth or improvement. You can run it every week or never run it and probably not be any better or worse off in the long run. It's just fun. If fun is looking up the strategies beforehand, cool, and if not, good luck!
I think the disconnect here is if you feel like this is a piece of content that owes you something; a minimum reward level and you feel cheated if you're not allowed to achieve that. It's not. It's free stuff that isn't directly related to character growth or improvement. You can run it every week or never run it and probably not be any better or worse off in the long run. It's just fun. If fun is looking up the strategies beforehand, cool, and if not, good luck!

Well, I guess there is that. I've gotten better each time I've gone through the scenario without having looked it up in advance. But, there's something to be said for intuitive as well. I'm not saying paint a big red marker over the lever to open the door to the next chamber, but could you move it to somewhere more obvious? I didn't see it until it was too late on my second run.

The first room seems fairly reasonably intuitive (with ways to avoid traps without running even close to them or using gimmick rocks/etc to get through). I figured that out on my second run by accident. The second room I'm going to take time to figure out without guides to help me (things like that I tend to want to experiment with myself without help. Raid strategies are another matter).

My only criticism is that the room, without outside help, doesn't lend to a lot of room to discover the best methods to get something without a guide. While I still refuse to use one (because I like my methods on farming things), that doesn't mean most others will follow my path. As GC once said, people will take the route that is the most efficient (usually letting others blaze the path for them and tell them the best way to do it) rather than the most fun most of the time.
I did my first Trove run today; had a lot of fun. I actually died once, though I'm not sure how, but I still managed to get 3 trove keys, 24 parchments, 8 Elder charms, a Shado-pan Assault rep thingie, a Shanz'e stone, a couple hundred gold ... think that was all.

I never made it to the first door, but I wasn't really trying to -- I just wanted to get in, poke around, & get what I got. Looking forward to doing it again! Was very surprised to find little aggro spiders in the first room, & the traps weren't as easy to avoid as I'd been led to believe, but it was still a very fun experience.
I love how people are talking as if finding one key a week is supposed to be typical.
There are levers in every room to open the doors. You have to look for them and open chests as you go. In the first room it is on the left side beside the stairs to the locked door.

As for your 'tutorial', a quick google search would've gotten you a lot of information that would've helped you out if you really cared about being 'efficient'.

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