DREAM Paragon is up to Heroic Lei Shen

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And no else is at the time of this post. Are they going to get the world first again?
going to be very sad if they can't keep a tier alive for a week, especially if Ra-den get's attempted out.
going to be very sad if they can't keep a tier alive for a week, especially if Ra-den get's attempted out.
You haven't even killed Lei Shen on normal.
going to be very sad if they can't keep a tier alive for a week, especially if Ra-den get's attempted out.


Because people who train, spend every hour they can spare on a raid, really define what a normal raider is going to be like.
You haven't even killed Lei Shen on normal.


You have a pink eyepatch. Guess what it has the same relevance.

I probably wont kill lei Shen on heroic this expansion, I still would prefer it if the horrendously hard heroic content actually lasted more then hours before being trampled under the top guilds.
Can't wait for the inevitable "lol 10 man" sh*tstorm to begin.
03/17/2013 06:00 PMPosted by Mate
You haven't even killed Lei Shen on normal.


You have a pink eyepatch. Guess what it has the same relevance.

I probably wont kill lei Shen on heroic this expansion, I still would prefer it if the horrendously hard heroic content actually lasted more then hours before being trampled under the top guilds.
You can prefer whatever you'd like, I'm just pointing out that Paragon's rate of progression has absolutely nothing to do with his or yours nor will it ever.
03/17/2013 06:12 PMPosted by Turranmc


You have a pink eyepatch. Guess what it has the same relevance.

I probably wont kill lei Shen on heroic this expansion, I still would prefer it if the horrendously hard heroic content actually lasted more then hours before being trampled under the top guilds.
You can prefer whatever you'd like, I'm just pointing out that Paragon's rate of progression has absolutely nothing to do with his or yours nor will it ever.


He didn't say it did. That doesn't mean we wouldn't like to see it last longer, as spectators.
Blizzard commented about this once in the past. To paraphrase, they said something along the lines of "The top players have gotten so good, with such effective mods, that mechanically there is very little they can do that will even slow them down. If the fight is possible, they'll down it relatively quickly. Balancing the fights around their players would make the content virtually impossible for the rest of the community."

IE the game has been out 8 years. The people playing now have great mods, understand underlying mechanics, and have become near impossible to stump with any level of fight complexity that blizzard is willing to design (because they aren't making the game for the top 800 PvE players).
Like Elarain said, imagine if they tuned heroic bosses hard enough to delay Paragon or similar guilds by weeks. Very few (or none) of the players here on the forums would ever get more than a handful of heroic mode bosses down then. There are some very good players here I know, but the gap between even them and the very best is great.

Unless of course they nerfed heroic modes a bit mid-tier. But heroic mode nerfs cause such complaining I don't think its something Blizzard could do.
Can't wait for the inevitable "lol 10 man" sh*tstorm to begin.


killing the last 3 bosses in 5 hours doesnt help the case either
The way top end guilds play now it's not surprising raid content falls quickly. You'd clear bosses quick too if you ran 7 raids the first week to farm normal gear, and then raided 18 hours a day until the tier was cleared on heroic.
03/17/2013 06:54 PMPosted by Winhee
Can't wait for the inevitable "lol 10 man" sh*tstorm to begin.


killing the last 3 bosses in 5 hours doesnt help the case either


Can't really compare Paragon to other guilds.

Paragon swept all the other 10 man guilds under the rug for progression in T14. Not sure why people would expect there to be much of a difference in T15. Paragon and Moonz are the only two guilds that are 7/13 or more so clearly there's a barrier they can break through and the others fell over for them. I'm guessing multiple guilds will caps out their Ra-den attempts, but no one will get it this week.

The only comical thing I find about 10 mans is that the interview with Paragon at the end of T14 resulted them saying something along the lines of "We really like the feel of 10 mans with the tight knit group, and it was definitely challenging content". It's funny because top ranking guilds like Paragon always say 10 man content is a joke, and now one went 10 man and it's really challenging, fun, and they like it. Fancy that.

Edit: Also a some of the top guilds have skipped over some heroics this tier, and I don't think that happened very often in T14 because of three different raids, and each one turning heroic a different week so while some guilds may be working on the 8th heroic or whatever they may have skipped others.
Like Elarain said, imagine if they tuned heroic bosses hard enough to delay Paragon or similar guilds by weeks. Very few (or none) of the players here on the forums would ever get more than a handful of heroic mode bosses down then. There are some very good players here I know, but the gap between even them and the very best is great.

Unless of course they nerfed heroic modes a bit mid-tier. But heroic mode nerfs cause such complaining I don't think its something Blizzard could do.


Paragon ranked heroic rag as one of the best fights the game had seen and plenty of guilds got to kill and experience the same fight minus 10% or so hp.
It's important when discussing if a boss can be killed or not by lesser guilds to keep in mind that bosses are weakened over time, players may be buffed, and gear improves. If something like Heroic Lich King remained in the state that it was when a guild like Paragon killed it, and gear never changed, you would probably be able to count the guilds that would kill him on one hand.
Interesting, very interesting.
Surprisingly enough, Highest level of gameplay + highest level of time input yields BOSS KILLS! AMG!
It's important when discussing if a boss can be killed or not by lesser guilds to keep in mind that bosses are weakened over time, players may be buffed, and gear improves. If something like Heroic Lich King remained in the state that it was when a guild like Paragon killed it, and gear never changed, you would probably be able to count the guilds that would kill him on one hand.


The original LK H model that they had to ninjahotfix or it would have been killed? or the limited attempts alt raid H LK?

They also factored the 5% buffs when tuning H LK.
Like Elarain said, imagine if they tuned heroic bosses hard enough to delay Paragon or similar guilds by weeks. Very few (or none) of the players here on the forums would ever get more than a handful of heroic mode bosses down then. There are some very good players here I know, but the gap between even them and the very best is great.

Unless of course they nerfed heroic modes a bit mid-tier. But heroic mode nerfs cause such complaining I don't think its something Blizzard could do.


Paragon ranked heroic rag as one of the best fights the game had seen and plenty of guilds got to kill and experience the same fight minus 10% or so hp.


One of the best fights, certainly, but did they rank it as one of the most challenging? Also, the "10% or so hp" makes a massive difference in a fight like that, where pushing P4 a few seconds earlier can make the difference between a good attempt or a guaranteed wipe.
Heroic rag is considered the most difficult fight the game has ever seen that was killable. And any guild that killed him when he was hard would have killed him regardless of the 10% nerf.
The way top end guilds play now it's not surprising raid content falls quickly. You'd clear bosses quick too if you ran 7 raids the first week to farm normal gear, and then raided 18 hours a day until the tier was cleared on heroic.


Fast yes but being that fast most likely means its undertuned.

Any boss that can be killed in 2 hours on the first week as a heroic is undertuned be it 10 or 25 man.

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