@Todays Hotfixes

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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Hey all,

Lead encounter designer Ion Hazzikostas (Watcher) has been reading through a lot of your feedback regarding the raid boss hotfixes, and he passed along the following response to this thread:

I just wanted to offer some context for the recent tuning hotfixes to the Horridon and Council of Elders encounters in the Throne of Thunder raid.

First off, the Council change, reducing their health in 10-player modes, was honestly just a bug fix. Yes, it made the encounter easier, which also makes it a nerf, but we simply goofed on the numbers. We generally aim for a 3:1 ratio of health for enemies in 25-player raids as compared to 10-player mode, since 25-player raids typically have ~17 DPS and 10-player raids have 5 or 6. Instead, the ratio on the bosses themselves (but not the Loa spirits or Sand Elementals) was mistakenly 2.5:1, and we didn’t notice until we started taking a closer look at why 10-player groups seemed to be having a harder time with the encounter. I apologize for the error on our part.

Second, regarding Horridon, that change was an intentional difficulty adjustment, with the aim of smoothing out the difficulty curve of the first section of the raid. By reducing the health of the trolls pouring out of each gate, we reduced the DPS requirement (and thus the gear requirement) of the encounter, but generally kept the mechanics checks intact. The trolls having 10-15% less health doesn’t mean that raids can suddenly fail to interrupt Venom Priests, ignore Effusions, stand in Sand Traps, or cuddle up with Frozen Orbs. It just means that there’s a lower DPS requirement to keep up with the waves while doing so.
This is fine and all, but in our 10-man comp we have no priests/paladins/monks, and therefore cannot dispel the five minute disease. Can you add items to give a player these spells in case the raid does not have a way to stop this?
Hey all,

Lead encounter designer Ion Hazzikostas (Watcher) has been reading through a lot of your feedback regarding the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/8953693/"]raid boss hotfixes[/url], and he passed along the following response to this thread:

I just wanted to offer some context for the recent tuning hotfixes to the Horridon and Council of Elders encounters in the Throne of Thunder raid.

First off, the Council change, reducing their health in 10-player modes, was honestly just a bug fix. Yes, it made the encounter easier, which also makes it a nerf, but we simply goofed on the numbers. We generally aim for a 3:1 ratio of health for enemies in 25-player raids as compared to 10-player mode, since 25-player raids typically have ~17 DPS and 10-player raids have 5 or 6. Instead, the ratio on the bosses themselves (but not the Loa spirits or Sand Elementals) was mistakenly 2.5:1, and we didn’t notice until we started taking a closer look at why 10-player groups seemed to be having a harder time with the encounter. I apologize for the error on our part.

Second, regarding Horridon, that change was an intentional difficulty adjustment, with the aim of smoothing out the difficulty curve of the first section of the raid. By reducing the health of the trolls pouring out of each gate, we reduced the DPS requirement (and thus the gear requirement) of the encounter, but generally kept the mechanics checks intact. The trolls having 10-15% less health doesn’t mean that raids can suddenly fail to interrupt Venom Priests, ignore Effusions, stand in Sand Traps, or cuddle up with Frozen Orbs. It just means that there’s a lower DPS requirement to keep up with the waves while doing so.


So at this point in time (not that my guild is there yet but probably tomorrow night) there are no more tuning/bug fixes in the works? Such that we may find out tomorrow?
This is fine and all, but in our 10-man comp we have no priests/paladins/monks, and therefore cannot dispel the five minute disease. Can you add items to give a player these spells in case the raid does not have a way to stop this?


This please.
I lead Inthrall's raid. As he said we have no way of dispelling disease. Nor is it even in our foreseeable future to be able to do so as we play on a very low pop server which has very little choice of raiders. Such a requirement should not be in raid encounters. The disease which is not dispel-able by shamans and druids, which is the healing classes we use needs to be changed in such a way that is not encounter-breaking.
Hey all,

Lead encounter designer Ion Hazzikostas (Watcher) has been reading through a lot of your feedback regarding the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/8953693/"]raid boss hotfixes[/url], and he passed along the following response to this thread:

I just wanted to offer some context for the recent tuning hotfixes to the Horridon and Council of Elders encounters in the Throne of Thunder raid.

First off, the Council change, reducing their health in 10-player modes, was honestly just a bug fix. Yes, it made the encounter easier, which also makes it a nerf, but we simply goofed on the numbers. We generally aim for a 3:1 ratio of health for enemies in 25-player raids as compared to 10-player mode, since 25-player raids typically have ~17 DPS and 10-player raids have 5 or 6. Instead, the ratio on the bosses themselves (but not the Loa spirits or Sand Elementals) was mistakenly 2.5:1, and we didn’t notice until we started taking a closer look at why 10-player groups seemed to be having a harder time with the encounter. I apologize for the error on our part.

Second, regarding Horridon, that change was an intentional difficulty adjustment, with the aim of smoothing out the difficulty curve of the first section of the raid. By reducing the health of the trolls pouring out of each gate, we reduced the DPS requirement (and thus the gear requirement) of the encounter, but generally kept the mechanics checks intact. The trolls having 10-15% less health doesn’t mean that raids can suddenly fail to interrupt Venom Priests, ignore Effusions, stand in Sand Traps, or cuddle up with Frozen Orbs. It just means that there’s a lower DPS requirement to keep up with the waves while doing so.

It did seem a bit rough on our second alts. Iron Qon was much easier this time around, no doubt.
I lead Inthrall's raid. As he said we have no way of dispelling disease. Nor is it even in our foreseeable future to be able to do so as we play on a very low pop server which has very little choice of raiders. Such a requirement should not be in raid encounters. The disease which is not dispel-able by shamans and druids, which is the healing classes we use needs to be changed in such a way that is not encounter-breaking.

So you don't have a single dps/tank pally or monk, nor a dps priest in your raids?
03/12/2013 03:35 AMPosted by Forkbelt
I lead Inthrall's raid. As he said we have no way of dispelling disease. Nor is it even in our foreseeable future to be able to do so as we play on a very low pop server which has very little choice of raiders. Such a requirement should not be in raid encounters. The disease which is not dispel-able by shamans and druids, which is the healing classes we use needs to be changed in such a way that is not encounter-breaking.

So you don't have a single dps/tank pally or monk, nor a dps priest in your raids?


We dont have any paladins or monks, and you need a holy/disc priest for disease: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=527/purify
03/12/2013 03:35 AMPosted by Forkbelt
I lead Inthrall's raid. As he said we have no way of dispelling disease. Nor is it even in our foreseeable future to be able to do so as we play on a very low pop server which has very little choice of raiders. Such a requirement should not be in raid encounters. The disease which is not dispel-able by shamans and druids, which is the healing classes we use needs to be changed in such a way that is not encounter-breaking.

So you don't have a single dps/tank pally or monk, nor a dps priest in your raids?


Nope, we don't.
The more surprising thing is they nerfed normals the first week, which I'm pretty sure GC said they'd never do. Clearly that panned out well.


Surely you can't be surprised by this. GC says a lot of things.
Hey all,

Lead encounter designer Ion Hazzikostas (Watcher) has been reading through a lot of your feedback regarding the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/8953693/"]raid boss hotfixes[/url], and he passed along the following response to this thread:

I just wanted to offer some context for the recent tuning hotfixes to the Horridon and Council of Elders encounters in the Throne of Thunder raid.

First off, the Council change, reducing their health in 10-player modes, was honestly just a bug fix. Yes, it made the encounter easier, which also makes it a nerf, but we simply goofed on the numbers. We generally aim for a 3:1 ratio of health for enemies in 25-player raids as compared to 10-player mode, since 25-player raids typically have ~17 DPS and 10-player raids have 5 or 6. Instead, the ratio on the bosses themselves (but not the Loa spirits or Sand Elementals) was mistakenly 2.5:1, and we didn’t notice until we started taking a closer look at why 10-player groups seemed to be having a harder time with the encounter. I apologize for the error on our part.

Second, regarding Horridon, that change was an intentional difficulty adjustment, with the aim of smoothing out the difficulty curve of the first section of the raid. By reducing the health of the trolls pouring out of each gate, we reduced the DPS requirement (and thus the gear requirement) of the encounter, but generally kept the mechanics checks intact. The trolls having 10-15% less health doesn’t mean that raids can suddenly fail to interrupt Venom Priests, ignore Effusions, stand in Sand Traps, or cuddle up with Frozen Orbs. It just means that there’s a lower DPS requirement to keep up with the waves while doing so.


You guys do understand that it's not what you choose to tune, but when you choose to tune it that's the problem right? Both these hot fixes and the ones last tier to garalon have had significant impact on guilds that raid earlier in the raid week compared to those who happen to raid later. Unless a fix is to prevent an exploit or unforeseen bug I see no reason that these changes need to happen mid raid week.

We dont have any paladins or monks, and you need a holy/disc priest for disease: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=527/purify


So that means you're healing with a resto druid / shaman?

Either log in a paladin alt, hang him out in the raid and cast symbiosis on him.

Or tell your druid to join a scenario or dungeon via LFD, symbiosis a paladin, and leave the group. Just be very "shhh" on that last one.
I'll be highly disappointing if they nerf Mageara over the maintenance, after getting threw the first 4 bosses without to much difficulty , honestly we wiped more on Horridon then council, 22 attempts on horridon or something compared to like 11 on council and that was with some using a back up tank.

Either way we didn't kill Mageara intill just tonight, after something like 80 attempts, yes 80 attempts we wasted wasted our whole week on it, trying all sorts of different make ups and head rotations, we had countless wipes on the last head around 25% and and even a 5% wipe, it wasn't in till tonight when we had all 3 of our strong healers plus our boomkin that plays resto a lot to finally switch to 4 heals, go to a G/R/G/R/G/R/B and kill it in about 4 attempts of switching to that 4 heal make up.

Now the crappy part is we had like 90min left for Ji-Kun , did like 5 pulls wiped at 22% on our last pull which was when the server restart.

Our Guild was 10/16HM prior to the patch with 5% wipes on ambershaper heroic, however we made a lot of roster changes coming to the patch so our average ilv was under 500. Honestly i'll just feel robbed if it gets nerfed to early and it turns out we wasted a hole week on a boss.

That being said most would agree that the next few bosses past Mageara are much easier and she probably does need a some kind of a nerf, i'd say the boss is tuned around 505-508+ ilv Gear, with the higher end being more where the healers need to sit at.

With the first part of raid finder opening this week and another 1k valor to spend on gear along with more loot, i'd imagine that it will make it much easier for people to deal with, because the fight is really a dps/hps check, i mean when we 3 healed it we close push with 2 breaths only on a 2nd pot.

So yeah maybe the plan for them is for Megeara to be hard gear check and force guilds to gear up more, maybe do some of the old content on heroic now that its nerfed. But then they did say that normal would be all about mechanics and i seriously see any way to reduce the damage in take.
edit: Talking with a couple of said progressed guilds, even they said they hated that fight and it's overtuned as !@#$. When 16/16HM guilds running around in 510+ ilvl are saying "we might need to 4 heal this," there's a tuning problem since Blizzard purposely nerfed Heroic Shek'zeer due to it highly encouraging 4 healers in a 10m. And this is a reg.


4 healing Magaera made it a much easier fight. The biggest killer for us seemed to be poison explosion followed directly by cinders. The healers have to react immediately which can easily conflict with spamming heavily debuffed tanks or kiting cinders or ice.
So that means you're healing with a resto druid / shaman?

Either log in a paladin alt, hang him out in the raid and cast symbiosis on him.

Or tell your druid to join a scenario or dungeon via LFD, symbiosis a paladin, and leave the group. Just be very "shhh" on that last one.

I thought this game was about bring the player, not the class? /sarcasm

However, I'm guessing after another week or so, they'll nerf the dots on 10m since it's way more stress as the precentage of dots to members is far higher.
It wasn't a nerf...... it just brought the two encounters down to the point of difficulty of the 25 man versions.
It wasn't a nerf...... it just brought the two encounters down to the point of difficulty of the 25 man versions.


Actually horrodon was nerfed on 25 as well.
You guys do understand that it's not what you choose to tune, but when you choose to tune it that's the problem right? Both these hot fixes and the ones last tier to garalon have had significant impact on guilds that raid earlier in the raid week compared to those who happen to raid later. Unless a fix is to prevent an exploit or unforeseen bug I see no reason that these changes need to happen mid raid week.


A Monday night nerf to the first bosses in normal mode is essentially the same as a Tuesday nerf--so not "mid raid week." No one competing in any serious capacity was stuck on either of these bosses.
does anyone know the exact hp of the adds for both 10 and 25 man now?

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