Tyrande needs to divorce Malfurion.

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What needs to happen is that Tyrande learns of all the things that Malfurion has done and finally snaps to it by leaving him. While she was out searching for herself she learns that Illidan was still alive and becomes attracted to the things that he was saying. So she would be attracted to him but not want to get back together with him due to Malfurion and the fact that she still loves him. Then by that point Illidan would find Malfurion once again and then they can fight with one another over Tyrande.

At this point in the story, things are really boring with Tyrande's love situation. Illidan's dead and Malfurion is ruling over Tyrande while we saw Tyrande's badass attitude sucked out of her turning her into a housewife. If we can add a competition over her love life it will make things more exciting, as well as suspenseful because it could just as easily be likely that she could choose Illidan over Malfurion.


She already chose Malfurion.

Also your idea is absolutely horrible.

Tyrande never loved Illidan and I don't see how that's going to just magically change after 10,000+ years.

She already knows what Malfurion is doing and I don't understand why she wouldn't?
If we can add a competition over her love life it will make things more exciting, as well as suspenseful because it could just as easily be likely that she could choose Illidan over Malfurion.


Tyrande's love life shouldn't be the central part of her story, and the night elven story.
I find it odd that there seems to be this consensus on the forums that in order for a woman to be strong she can't have any sort of romantic attachment.

Tyrande isn't weak because of Malfurion, she's weak because Blizzard decided to write her that way for the past two expansions. Back in Warcraft 3 she was tough, and she clearly had the upper hand over Malfurion in the relationship. Divorcing Malfurion would do nothing for her character if Blizzard doesn't choose to do anything with it.
I don't see what she needs to prove.


She needs to prove that she can lead. That's what the other short stories did, and that's what Tyrande has consistently failed to do.

Technically she wasn't suppose to do it, she and malfurion both told her people to not go out into the World to search for loved ones and she was deliberately disobeying her own orders so instead of leaving in the middle of daylight and having to deal with the political side of her decision she sneaks out to avoid all that.


Her having to deal with any sort of political side in the Night Elves' society is dealing with Malfurion. So what's he going to do, realistically? Honestly, Tyrande has made all sorts of politically controversial decisions because she felt that her reasons were just in a rather blatant manner. The butchering of the watchers comes to mind, but suddenly she's worried about being second guessed?

She is the decider! She needs to lead.

I expect her to still have her moment otherwise I'd be afraid of her as a leader honestly. The fact that she did breakdown in someway and immediately rushes to heal Shandris and do anything she could makes me relate to her more and I like that in this kind of Story. These leaders are still Human or Elven or whatever you want to say and they should be allowed to have some of those simpler reactions. I would imagine in situations with higher stakes she would act better like she has previously.


I stand by what I said before. This person is expected to lead her people through adversity, and should be able to deal with it and power through it, instead of breaking down when things get bad. She's not the person who can answer that call. She's not the leader we need, and she has shown this on a consistent basis since Cataclysm.


Again, I don't think she needs to be killed. I don't think she needs to break off her ten-thousand year relationship with Malfurion either. But we need a competent leader, and Tyrande just isn't it.
She needs to prove that she can lead. That's what the other short stories did, and that's what Tyrande has consistently failed to do.


Honestly only 1 or 2 of them showed them as true leaders, imo at least. The rest were just a sneak peak into their lives.

The butchering of the watchers comes to mind, but suddenly she's worried about being second guessed?


Maybe she's learned not to be so rash with things maybe? She always was before.

Again, I don't think she needs to be killed. I don't think she needs to break off her ten-thousand year relationship with Malfurion either. But we need a competent leader, and Tyrande just isn't it


She can be if you have a little faith.
She needs to prove that she can lead. That's what the other short stories did, and that's what Tyrande has consistently failed to do.

While there are certain points that I disagree with you on Kyalin, this isn't one of them. So lets focus on the point we agree on for the moment.

Perhaps a way to demonstrate Tyrande's ability as a leader is in a short story or quest seperate Tyrande from reinforcements and put her in a position where she has to fight her way out to protect herself and/or others. For example, while on her way to a meeting she becomes stranded in the woods and has to relly on her own ability to find her way to the meeting. On her way she encounters someone or something that is under attack and she decides to help them. Would something like this be a better means of showing Tyrande's character?
Maybe she's learned not to be so rash with things maybe? She always was before.


Wrong. So says Kosak.

She can be if you have a little faith.


I'm actually happy you said this, it allows me to repeat my catch phrase.

Fool me once? Shame on you
Fool me twice? Shame on me
Fool me eight times? No, just no.

I've held out for far too long to have residual faith in that character, or Blizzard's ability to tell the story in general.
Wrong. So says Kosak.


Oh yea forgot about that lol.

Fool me eight times? No, just no.


I laughed sorry.

I still have faith. It helps that I like Malfurion more than Tyrande though so.
03/17/2013 07:24 PMPosted by Danseis
She needs to prove that she can lead. That's what the other short stories did, and that's what Tyrande has consistently failed to do.

While there are certain points that I disagree with you on Kyalin, this isn't one of them. So lets focus on the point we agree on for the moment.

Perhaps a way to demonstrate Tyrande's ability as a leader is in a short story or quest seperate Tyrande from reinforcements and put her in a position where she has to fight her way out to protect herself and/or others. For example, while on her way to a meeting she becomes stranded in the woods and has to relly on her own ability to find her way to the meeting. On her way she encounters someone or something that is under attack and she decides to help them. Would something like this be a better means of showing Tyrande's character?


Honestly, I'd just like her to approach a situation, any situation, and show that she has the ability to take charge and lead people through it. Not once has she really done that since Warcraft III, and I really don't think she's going to.

This is a clear failure on Blizzard's part, and I just don't see how it can be salvaged, but there's hope with other Night Elf characters that they haven't expanded upon, or a new character provided that they don't kill her off in her first patch.

Then there's the Blingtron 4000. *Waves banners and campaign signs*
This is a clear failure on Blizzard's part, and I just don't see how it can be salvaged

Well, I'll see what madness I can come up with. Granted I'm not as well versed in Night Elf lore as other members of the Alliance (and it would be a mere fanfic) but we need to find something to keep you around. Might take a week or two to come up with something coherant, so I'll take my leave for now. /bow
03/17/2013 07:11 PMPosted by Gavirix
I find it odd that there seems to be this consensus on the forums that in order for a woman to be strong she can't have any sort of romantic attachment.


That opinion comes more from correlation than from actually believing that men are horrible. As in, when a female character gets a romantic attachment, their stories unfortunately tend to start revolving around the attachment. And so, many people have concluded, the situation of having a romantic interest shouldn't even start because it always ends badly.

03/17/2013 07:39 PMPosted by Kyalin
Honestly, I'd just like her to approach a situation, any situation, and show that she has the ability to take charge and lead people through it. Not once has she really done that since Warcraft III, and I really don't think she's going to.


What if there was a scenario before SoO where the player followed Tyrande on a series of sneak attacks on orc bases throughout Ashenvale (and perhaps Azshara) to get ready to strike at the city itself? I think it'd be a good lead-up to the siege and it'd be a chance to show Tyrande as a tactical leader.
03/17/2013 07:24 PMPosted by Danseis
She needs to prove that she can lead. That's what the other short stories did, and that's what Tyrande has consistently failed to do.

While there are certain points that I disagree with you on Kyalin, this isn't one of them. So lets focus on the point we agree on for the moment.

Perhaps a way to demonstrate Tyrande's ability as a leader is in a short story or quest seperate Tyrande from reinforcements and put her in a position where she has to fight her way out to protect herself and/or others. For example, while on her way to a meeting she becomes stranded in the woods and has to relly on her own ability to find her way to the meeting. On her way she encounters someone or something that is under attack and she decides to help them. Would something like this be a better means of showing Tyrande's character?


No.

Tyrande's problem isn't necessarily that she isn't a strong character. It's that she's being written as a shallow character because they can't have her on the field.

Tyrande, more than any other character in Warcraft (Malfurion and Thrall included) is a dues ex. She doesn't have a story anymore because her actions are all centered around Elune. And why shouldn't they be, when it becomes an easy, convenient plot device by Blizzard.

Tyrande never has to overcome a situation on her own anymore. Any new trick, any overwhelming odd, and Elune is there with a new trick until suddenly she isn't because of a new plot device.

Which is why Tyrande needs to be stripped of Elune, even temporarily, to reestablish herself as a character, instead of being this catch all wonder woman who can pull out a new trick that totally is overpowered as !@#$ whenever plot demands with no hint or reason or explanation that she could do so before.

Tyrande needs to be Tyrande, not a plot device who goes from being able to magically ward off Old God power because "ohh hey, new trick" to "gonna make copies of myself like a boss because why not" to every other thing she's able to do.

Give us Tyrande, High Priestess of Elune, leader of the Night Elven people.
Not Tyrande, Vessel of Elune, magic power extraordinaire because why not.
What needs to happen is that Tyrande learns of all the things that Malfurion has done and finally snaps to it by leaving him. While she was out searching for herself she learns that Illidan was still alive and becomes attracted to the things that he was saying. So she would be attracted to him but not want to get back together with him due to Malfurion and the fact that she still loves him. Then by that point Illidan would find Malfurion once again and then they can fight with one another over Tyrande.

At this point in the story, things are really boring with Tyrande's love situation. Illidan's dead and Malfurion is ruling over Tyrande while we saw Tyrande's badass attitude sucked out of her turning her into a housewife. If we can add a competition over her love life it will make things more exciting, as well as suspenseful because it could just as easily be likely that she could choose Illidan over Malfurion.


She already chose Malfurion.

Also your idea is absolutely horrible.

Tyrande never loved Illidan and I don't see how that's going to just magically change after 10,000+ years.

She already knows what Malfurion is doing and I don't understand why she wouldn't?
Yeah well maybe she made the wrong choice. Since Malfurion thinks that believes that he already has Tyrande there's no competition at all therefore Malfurion can do whatever he wants with her and she'll just act like the submissive housewife she's been. What needs to happen is that she needs to reaffirm herself with the beliefs of why she fell in love with Malfurion in the first place, and for that to happen Malfurion needs some competition. Illidan seems like the best choice imo and the only way for there to be competition is for them to actually leave each other, which would imply that Tyrande would dislike how Malfurion's been treating her. Therefore the most logical course of action would be for her to finally react to the things that should have caused her to be offended by Malfurion's actions.


She already chose Malfurion.

Also your idea is absolutely horrible.

Tyrande never loved Illidan and I don't see how that's going to just magically change after 10,000+ years.

She already knows what Malfurion is doing and I don't understand why she wouldn't?
Yeah well maybe she made the wrong choice. Since Malfurion thinks that believes that he already has Tyrande there's no competition at all therefore Malfurion can do whatever he wants with her and she'll just act like the submissive housewife she's been. What needs to happen is that she needs to reaffirm herself with the beliefs of why she fell in love with Malfurion in the first place, and for that to happen Malfurion needs some competition. Illidan seems like the best choice imo and the only way for there to be competition is for them to actually leave each other, which would imply that Tyrande would dislike how Malfurion's been treating her. Therefore the most logical course of action would be for her to finally react to the things that should have caused her to be offended by Malfurion's actions.


Tyrande is not submissive, and Tyrande being attracted to a man is not the problem, and before we continue with Illidan, he was a power hungry psychopath, even if he went to bat for the good guys every once in a while.

The problem is and has always been her portrayal, and I still don't see it as reversible. We need someone else.
Yeah well maybe she made the wrong choice. Since Malfurion thinks that believes that he already has Tyrande there's no competition at all therefore Malfurion can do whatever he wants with her and she'll just act like the submissive housewife she's been. What needs to happen is that she needs to reaffirm herself with the beliefs of why she fell in love with Malfurion in the first place, and for that to happen Malfurion needs some competition. Illidan seems like the best choice imo and the only way for there to be competition is for them to actually leave each other, which would imply that Tyrande would dislike how Malfurion's been treating her. Therefore the most logical course of action would be for her to finally react to the things that should have caused her to be offended by Malfurion's actions.


Tyrande is not submissive, and Tyrande being attracted to a man is not the problem, and before we continue with Illidan, he was a power hungry psychopath, even if he went to bat for the good guys every once in a while.

The problem is and has always been her portrayal, and I still don't see it as reversible. We need someone else.


Which won't do any good. If they screwed up Tyrande, they will screw up a new character.


Tyrande is not submissive, and Tyrande being attracted to a man is not the problem, and before we continue with Illidan, he was a power hungry psychopath, even if he went to bat for the good guys every once in a while.

The problem is and has always been her portrayal, and I still don't see it as reversible. We need someone else.


Which won't do any good. If they screwed up Tyrande, they will screw up a new character.


At least with a clean slate and with the understanding that they did fail, they have the chance to correct their mistakes.


Which won't do any good. If they screwed up Tyrande, they will screw up a new character.


At least with a clean slate and with the understanding that they did fail, they have the chance to correct their mistakes.


But they show no sign that they understand where they failed.


At least with a clean slate and with the understanding that they did fail, they have the chance to correct their mistakes.


But they show no sign that they understand where they failed.


That's an argument against your proposal as well though. It's in fact an argument against suggestions in general. I'm inclined to agree to a point, but only to a point.

Either way, if Blizzard ever does come around, Tyrande is still too far gone to be saved at this point. That's just not the case with another character.
Tyrande and Malfurion's roles can't be salvaged, and they cannot be replaced with the hope that a clean slate with an admission of wrongdoing will solve the problems Blizzard has created for the Night Elves. The stories around them since Warcraft III need to be redone by people who are able to handle a complicated and nuanced narrative. It needs to be rewritten by writers who actually have a respect for the teenage audience which is the target audience of this game in toto. I know 11 year olds who are reading Lord of the Rings, which is a much more complicated narrative, with a very nuanced and subtle approach to character development. In addition, if someone were to make an abstract of the Night Elf part in the narrative from Warcraft III to MoP, and present it to English teachers, professors, and literary critics, I bet that it would be rejected as trash; that it couldn't pass a high school class in creative writing.

To start, there is the fundamental inconsistency of how the race is portrayed from their inception to their current manifestation. Let us remember that their portrayal in Warcraft III was as a race so intimately tied with the natural world, that the army they were a part of wasn't specifically the Night Elf army, but was an alliance of creatures dwelling in Northern Kalimdor for mutual protection. This is not what we have now. While I think I remember hearing that the Night Elf army was called the "Army of the Ancients", instead of this they are now portrayed as only having those allies because they were the biggest game in town, back in the day. There is really not much of a difference between the kind of threat Orgrimmar poses to Ashenvale and that which the Burning Legion did. Both begin with destroying the forest, and end with the subversion and systematic destruction of all living things there. So how do we justify a divergence from the Ancients to this extent?

Then there is the 10,000 years old issue. Age this extreme is always intimately linked with wisdom especially when it is associated with a people tied to the natural world. There is no reason to break with this manner of thinking and the literary tradition tied to it. However, the fact that Elves are a part of a very old literary tradition that links them with wisdom and the natural world is a very strong reason for adhering to this manner of thinking. Having said that, divergence from this part of the literary traditions Elves are a part of deserves justification, which we are lacking in. All we get is "Kosak said so" and similar silliness. If that is all we get, why make them immortal in the first place? Why not have Tyrande and Malfurion be young rulers instead of ancient people who saw the Night Elves through several civilization threatening events? What was the point of making such an obvious link only to break it without having it make sense?

I will digress further to take a better part of the community to point on the issue of Malfurion. Why, in the face of Malfurion's rejection of regained immortality, are we turning our anger toward him instead of the infantile writers who forced such a stupid idea through his mouth? Why wasn't there an uproar about this like there was about linking Elune with the Naaru? Is it because it was in a book that we feel that we have no place contradicting lousy writing? There are not many weaker excuses I can think of to accept such obnoxious changes in a narrative. A book is no different from the game, and the trading cards, the blue posts, etc. It can and should be challenged, especially when it has sunk to this abysmal level of writing.

I will close with this last point. The Night Elves that manifest in WoW today bear no resemblance to the Night Elves WoW started with and Warcraft III ended with. They are the same race in name only. Tyrande in WoW bears no resemblance to her counterpart in Warcraft III and the same goes for Malfurion. Rather than going through a laundry list of portrayals to see the validity of this claim, one can see the validity in the fact that threads like this one have been going on for two (?) or more years. Despite the strength or lack thereof of in arguments concerned with Night Elves, the trend is indicative of something more serious than a whiney group of megalomaniacs searching for self-aggrandizement. If thats all it was, those threads would be shot down very quickly and would cease to exist after a much shorter duration. Neither of which is the case. The problem starts with the writers and framers of the narrative, who need to be fixed or replaced. Only after that can Tyrande and Malfurion (as well as leaders of other races) resemble what they were designed to be.
hush, all of you Tyrandes.

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