Please let us see how many bosses are down.

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Personally, I can understand why they took away the ability to see which bosses a raid has cleared.

That said, it has yet to stop me from leaving a group and just eating the debuff if they've downed a boss I was waiting for. There are so many dailies to do, that I can easily soak up 30 minutes without a problem.


While I haven't left a group if a boss I want is downed, this makes sense.
People wouldn't 'cherry pick' bosses if every boss in the instance shared the same loot table.


The problem is, as evidenced by the people stating that they have no problem eating the debuff, is that people will cherry pick bosses anyway. I don't want to cherry pick bosses. I want to run one LFR, and kill all four bosses. I don't want to play Boss Roulette while sitting in queue after queue, trying to get at least one kill each on bosses 1-4, when the queue consistently gives me bosses 3 and 4.

Look, I know that waiting for a group to refill in the middle is a pain. We've all been there with Dragon Soul. The wait after Blackhorn was awful...but I'd much, much, MUCH rather wait half an hour in the middle of a run for it to fill and continue than have to sit through three and four and five (or more!) half hour queues AND half-runs, trying to get a single kill on each of four bosses a week.

...and that's just factoring in ONE of the LFRs.

I don't care who you are, I don't care what special math you're using. You cannot possibly look at me with a straight face and tell me that the time spent on a fresh run, even with a half hour wait in the middle, is going to be more than the time spent on a queue + half-run + queue + half-run + queue + 3/4 run + queue + 1/4 run + queue + (maybe finally!) full run...

...and then I'm just encouraged to drop and perpetuate the cycle when I *DO* get a full run to drop, because I'm already so sick of killing the last bosses (and there's no more loot to be had from them!) , once the bosses that I still needed to kill are dead.
Bashiok explains the reasoning behind the change in this thread below.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200302669?page=2#26


Those reasons are now invalidated by the new buff for wipes that is currently in place.
Waiting 53min to do one boss is kinda crappy. And then wait another 53min and maybe get a boss you need. I'd rather do a fresh run each time than what it currently gives.
Because some people wouldnt take the queue, people like you, because it was already in progress.

Others would sit all week queueing up until they finally got one with 3/4 complete and go in just to get Valor points from downing last boss.
It feels like I am being sold into servitude by Blizzard. That is not a good feeling to have in a video game.


Get over yourself Goober.
The display for how many bosses were remaining had been removed from Raid Finder in Patch 5.1.

Bashiok explains the reasoning behind the change in this thread below.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200302669?page=2#26

Right, so with 5.1 the game no longer tells you how many bosses are left for the group you’re being matched with for Raid Finder (LFR).

To explain why we made the change, let’s go back to the problem everyone was experiencing before. Let’s say a fresh LFR group is put together, they get two bosses down, and then wipe a few times on the third and lose 10 people who think they’re too cool for wiping. Now the group is down to 15, waiting for 10 new people, the queue eventually pops for those 10, and most of them see 2/6 and hit cancel. The raid still isn't full, the matchmaker has to go looking again for more people, and meanwhile as time ticks on people from the original run are getting more frustrated. Maybe a few of them leave, and then there’s even more spots to fill. Plenty of times everyone just gives up and the entire run falls apart, all those people are back in the queue, and they’ll be-damned if they join an in-progress run to fall apart again!

These kinds of things happen all of the time, and in the vast majority of situations it’s simply because people don’t like the idea of joining an in-progress run, even if it would have succeeded.

You may think we’re trying to be underhanded, but the reality is we’re trying to help people be more efficient with their play time. What most people don’t realize is that if they get and complete an in-progress run, the next time they queue they will preferentially be placed into a fresh instance. What everyone should be doing, to be the most efficient, is joining and sticking with their runs to completion. If they join an in-progress group they can catch up on those other couple bosses they missed immediately after, and if they have the time, they’d be wise to down the ones they've already killed again for extra Valor.

The patch has only been out a couple days of course, but personally I think there are some people who don’t realize yet how an in-progress run, and that extra Valor, can directly translate to improved items through the new upgrade system. An in-progress run is very likely better bang for the buck to your character power due to item level upgrades than hitting cancel over and over to get a fresh run and then hoping for a boss drop.

There are of course other issues that cause LFR groups to fall apart, like boss difficulty, and those are the kinds of things we’re looking at bigger solutions for. Losing a couple people doesn’t need to mean the whole run is doomed.


The explanation is pointless, forcing a player to run the same raid twice (or more) is stupid, not to mention hideously time consuming for those of us who aren't a tank or healer. And it ignores the fact that a great many of us don't care what you guys think. If I enter a half-done raid, I immediately exit. What, you think I can't find something to do for a half hour? WoW isn't the only game in town. The only thing this promotes is a revolving LFR composition. I haven't seen 1 group remain unchanged in an LFR for a very long time.

And I'm writing this while having been in queue for more than an hour, and oh look at that, server restarts just removed me from queue. How thoughtful.
Would would make even greater sense for this problem is that if a person is taken into a group that has already downed bosses in that particular LFR, they get a buff or something that would given them a priority queue for their next LFR. Something like this seems to make sense on all sides. Especially if you're a dps that's already sat in an hour long queue to get into LFR.
When LFR was new last week I queued up as soon as possible. My first entry into a dungeon - I would much rather do the whole thing, but I got a 2/3 queue after 30 minutes. I want the hat from the first boss, and so already I lose my chance at that. We cruised though the second half of the dungeon and then I queued up again for an hour and a half to do the first boss which took all of 10 minutes.

If you want to force me to do half the dungeon at a time, then put me in FRONT of the line up when I have to queue again. I already convenienced another group with my presence and helped them finish the run, now I should get a favour and not have to sit on Daily Island for an hour twiddling my thumbs as WoW runs in the background.

The problem is, as evidenced by the people stating that they have no problem eating the debuff, is that people will cherry pick bosses anyway. I don't want to cherry pick bosses. I want to run one LFR, and kill all four bosses. I don't want to play Boss Roulette while sitting in queue after queue, trying to get at least one kill each on bosses 1-4, when the queue consistently gives me bosses 3 and 4.

Look, I know that waiting for a group to refill in the middle is a pain. We've all been there with Dragon Soul. The wait after Blackhorn was awful...but I'd much, much, MUCH rather wait half an hour in the middle of a run for it to fill and continue than have to sit through three and four and five (or more!) half hour queues AND half-runs, trying to get a single kill on each of four bosses a week.

...and that's just factoring in ONE of the LFRs.

I don't care who you are, I don't care what special math you're using. You cannot possibly look at me with a straight face and tell me that the time spent on a fresh run, even with a half hour wait in the middle, is going to be more than the time spent on a queue + half-run + queue + half-run + queue + 3/4 run + queue + 1/4 run + queue + (maybe finally!) full run...

...and then I'm just encouraged to drop and perpetuate the cycle when I *DO* get a full run to drop, because I'm already so sick of killing the last bosses (and there's no more loot to be had from them!) , once the bosses that I still needed to kill are dead.


^Exactly this. There are multiple LFR's. I don't mind once and a while, but in a month from now when the whole raid is available - do you really think I want to sit in EIGHT hour long queues to do 4 dungeons to have a shot at all the loot?

No. No I don't.

As pretty as Thunder Isle is, I'm just so sick of dailies that I can't possibly find myself to carry on with that drivel.

The display for how many bosses were remaining had been removed from Raid Finder in Patch 5.1.

Bashiok explains the reasoning behind the change in this thread below.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200302669?page=2#26


To explain why we made the change, let’s go back to the problem everyone was experiencing before. Let’s say a fresh LFR group is put together, they get two bosses down, and then wipe a few times on the third and lose 10 people who think they’re too cool for wiping. Now the group is down to 15, waiting for 10 new people, the queue eventually pops for those 10, and most of them see 2/6 and hit cancel. The raid still isn't full, the matchmaker has to go looking again for more people, and meanwhile as time ticks on people from the original run are getting more frustrated. Maybe a few of them leave, and then there’s even more spots to fill. Plenty of times everyone just gives up and the entire run falls apart, all those people are back in the queue, and they’ll be-damned if they join an in-progress run to fall apart again!


It took like what, less than a minute to fill those 10 slots back up? Oh yes it did.

I'd much rather wait less then a minute if half the group drops then an extra hour and a half to do the same dungeon again. Most of the time when the group drops its separating the wheat from the chafe...
03/20/2013 07:07 AMPosted by Rixita
how about letting us queue up on one character, and be able to play on an alt while we wait? When the queue pops, if we accept it automatically instantly logs us out and logs us onto our queued character.


I don't doubt this would take significant overhauls, but I would love this. My main is so done doing anything but LFR at this point that an hour queue to do the one thing I want is an hour sitting in town losing interest
03/19/2013 06:21 PMPosted by Shoggot
The patch has only been out a couple days of course, but personally I think there are some people who don’t realize yet how an in-progress run, and that extra Valor, can directly translate to improved items through the new upgrade system. An in-progress run is very likely better bang for the buck to your character power due to item level upgrades than hitting cancel over and over to get a fresh run and then hoping for a boss drop.


Right, the new upgrade system--which is now gone. Since part of the logic for this is now broken, does that alter the conclusion?


Not really because there's still plenty of items you can buy with VP.

I mean, really, is it too much work to kill an extra boss or two for more VP which you can then use to fill a slot that just won't drop for you? Is that too much work or something? *rolls eyes*

And then there's coins/runes, can still use those on the bosses themselves. Though most people save them for the weapons, because it takes 20+ of them for an average person to get a weapon.....
That said, it has yet to stop me from leaving a group and just eating the debuff if they've downed a boss I was waiting for. There are so many dailies to do, that I can easily soak up 30 minutes without a problem.
Same here.

The underlying problem is that for pretty much the entire time that I run a LFR, I am there for the loot. I don't want to skip bosses (most of the time, sometimes I only want a stubborn drop off the last boss, and I hope for half finished runs), and I definitely don't want to queue twice for one raid.

It boils down to one thing for me. Getting into half done raids is not how I want to play. I feel that Blizzard saw that, and decided to try and force me to play in a way that I don't like. When forced to choose between playing in a way I don't like and not playing at all, I will choose to not play almost every single time.

I wish more people felt that way.
Given that DPS queues often take 45-60 minutes, having to wait this long twice to finish a raid is the real issue here. A lot of people would rather spend this time better


........45-60min?

I've never, ever, ever seen anything over 25min.

You sure you're not doing some bloated exaggeration here? Or are you counting it twice because of two queues? Even then, the norm is 15-20 unless you try to Q up Sat+....
03/20/2013 07:25 AMPosted by Xaelai
Given that DPS queues often take 45-60 minutes, having to wait this long twice to finish a raid is the real issue here. A lot of people would rather spend this time better


........45-60min?

I've never, ever, ever seen anything over 25min.

You sure you're not doing some bloated exaggeration here? Or are you counting it twice because of two queues? Even then, the norm is 15-20 unless you try to Q up Sat+....


I regularly get a 45 minute queue for terrace while MSV and HOF is more like 10-15 minutes.

ToT - after my initial run it was an hour. First queue was 30 mins.

So no, a single hour long queue is not an exaggeration.

So you think it is OK that a LFR should always fall apart every time a few people leave for any reason whatsoever?


LFR has never... not even once "fallen apart on me."

Maybe it "fell apart" on you because the tank and a healer left and you decided to leave too? The people who stayed probably re-queued and got another group going in less than 5 minutes.
03/20/2013 07:24 AMPosted by Rógue
That said, it has yet to stop me from leaving a group and just eating the debuff if they've downed a boss I was waiting for. There are so many dailies to do, that I can easily soak up 30 minutes without a problem.
Same here.

The underlying problem is that for pretty much the entire time that I run a LFR, I am there for the loot. I don't want to skip bosses (most of the time, sometimes I only want a stubborn drop off the last boss, and I hope for half finished runs), and I definitely don't want to queue twice for one raid.

It boils down to one thing for me. Getting into half done raids is not how I want to play. I feel that Blizzard saw that, and decided to try and force me to play in a way that I don't like. When forced to choose between playing in a way I don't like and not playing at all, I will choose to not play almost every single time.

I wish more people felt that way.


So you think it is OK that a LFR should always fall apart every time a few people leave for any reason whatsoever?

If everybody felt "your" way then you'd almost never get an LFR done at all.

If everybody felt your way, and if Blizz allowed you to see what bosses were killed, you'd enter an LFR, kill a few bosses, then someone in the raid decides that they have to leave for whatever reason:

1). Wipes
2). The boss they wanted to kill didn't drop the loot they wanted.
3). RL came up.
4). They thought the performance of the LFR group wasn't to their standards (OMG HOW DARE SOMEONE DO 35k DPS IN MSV!!!!!)
5). Disconnects.
6). People getting kicked for #4 reasons.

Anytime this happens... you would find it IMPOSSIBLE to finish the raid, and guess what? you're going to have to queue up for another run anyways only THIS time, you'll have to do more cancelling every time you see "1 out of 3" or "2 out of 3" bosses dead and it will take you LONGER to finish the raid.

EDIT: Oh, and don't forget! You'd have to queue up for the first few bosses.......again! because you are wanting only fresh runs.


........45-60min?

I've never, ever, ever seen anything over 25min.

You sure you're not doing some bloated exaggeration here? Or are you counting it twice because of two queues? Even then, the norm is 15-20 unless you try to Q up Sat+....


I regularly get a 45 minute queue for terrace while MSV and HOF is more like 10-15 minutes.

ToT - after my initial run it was an hour. First queue was 30 mins.


Well it would have helped if Blizz didn't stick everybody's weapon in the same raid... there's probably a gazillion DPS wanting to do ToT because of the stupid weapon that refuses to drop.

IMO, weapons should drop off of EVERY BOSS in the raid tier along with their current drops, due to how important they are.

Then, suddenly, you give people a reason to want to kill every single boss in the raid, because EVERYBODY needs weapons.
[quote]

Not really because there's still plenty of items you can buy with VP.

I mean, really, is it too much work to kill an extra boss or two for more VP which you can then use to fill a slot that just won't drop for you? Is that too much work or something? *rolls eyes*

And then there's coins/runes, can still use those on the bosses themselves. Though most people save them for the weapons, because it takes 20+ of them for an average person to get a weapon.....


VP? Oh, you mean that capped currency that you can't exceed 1K per week? That you could simply run dailies, dungeons and scenarios for and get all you need? That VP?



........45-60min?

I've never, ever, ever seen anything over 25min.

You sure you're not doing some bloated exaggeration here? Or are you counting it twice because of two queues? Even then, the norm is 15-20 unless you try to Q up Sat+....


Prior to the restart that occurred a few minutes ago, I'd been in queue for terrace for 1 hour and 4 minutes, at least. I say at least, because that was the amount of time listed when I'd last checked. Otherwise I'm paged out, reading the forums and other news.
Prior to the restart that occurred a few minutes ago, I'd been in queue for terrace for 1 hour and 4 minutes, at least. I say at least, because that was the amount of time listed when I'd last checked. Otherwise I'm paged out, reading the forums and other news.


Well I did say that TBH, Blizz needs to stick the weapons on ALL bosses in HoF and ToT so that the DPS are spread out more evenly amongst that Raid Tier.

Sticking most (all?) the weapons in ToS was a ridiculously silly thing to do. Surely they had to have known that everybody would spam ToS (especially Sha) trying to get their weapon, especially now when we can have 20 coins and easily get 10+ in a single week, that people would make 10+ Sha runs trying to get their weapon.

This results in a ridiculous DPS queue.

Easy Fix: PUT THE STINKING WEAPONS ON ALL BOSSES ALREADY KTHX.

And the queues for ToT (which I misread)?

It is a NEW raid that requires 480 IIRC?

Yeah, considering our ridiculously bad luck (even post 5.2), I bet mostly only Normal Raiders and those grinding LFR the entire expansion are the only ones who can get in there.

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