Real Proc Per Minute (RPPM) Trinket Changes

General Discussion
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Summary:
We added a bit of cheating in the player’s favor to avoid long streaks of bad luck. This change is now live.

Longer explanation:
Traditionally, trinkets and similar proc effects in the game had high proc chances with an internal cooldown (ICD). This made the procs random in theory, but really pretty predictable. You would know that a trinket would proc on the pull and then reliably every 45 sec (or whatever the ICD was).

For 5.2, we made a change to trinkets to make them less predictable and less boring with the RPPM system. Sometimes you can get lucky and get several back to back procs. This feels cool. Sometimes you can also be unlucky, and get long streaks when the trinket just refuses to proc. A trinket that is intended to proc every 1 minute could in theory go 8 minutes or more without activating.

Last night we hotfixed in a change for trinkets that use the RPPM system. Every time your trinket fails to proc, it increases the chance it will proc. Unlucky streaks will be more rare and extremely unlucky streaks should never happen. In addition, we increased the chance for these trinkets to proc on the pull. To top it off, we increased the proc rates of the Agility and Strength trinkets in Throne of Thunder by 10% and the Intellect and Spirit trinkets by 5%.

Painfully detailed explanation for theorycrafting:
As usual, you absolutely do not need to know or understand the following in order to use or best take advantage of these procs. This info is just for theorycrafters who want to understand the exact details of the system, so that they can model and simulate it better.

Calculate the proc frequency as normal. Based on that, you can figure out the expected average proc interval. We also now keep track of time since the last successful proc (this is different from the time since last chance to proc), capped at 1000 sec. Multiply the proc chance by MAX(1, 1+((TimeSinceLastSuccessfulProc/AverageProcInterval)-1.5)*3). For example, if a proc has an average proc interval of 45 sec, and it’s been 72 sec since your last successful proc, you’ll get a 1.3x multiplier to your proc chance. If you’ve been out of combat for a few min, and it’s been 5 min since your last successful proc, you’ll get a whopping 16.5x multiplier to your proc chance.

We increased the proc rate of the following trinkets by 10%:
• Renataki’s Soul Charm
• Talisman of Bloodlust
• Bad Juju
• Rune of Re-Origination
• Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun
• Primordius’ Talisman of Rage
• Spark of Zandalar
• Gaze of the Twins

We increased the proc rate of the following trinkets by 5%:
• Wushoolay’s Final Choice
• Breath of the Hydra
• Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen
• Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance
• Horridon's Last Gasp
• Inscribed Bag of Hydra-Spawn
• Stolen Relic of Zuldazar
• Lightning-Imbued Chalice

Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen now has 65% of the normal proc rate for Balance Druids, up from 50%.
The thing I still worry about for the healer trinkets is that they remain relatively weak in this tier. I was excited to see the shield proc trinkets, but their strength seems absolutely lackluster. I think this was a needed change though.....we will see what effect it has live.
Maybe now the normal mode Agility trinkets will be an upgrade over 510 H Bottle of Infinite Stars?
I like the intent, spice up rotations by adding dynamic changes that force you to think on the fly, but in reality I would prefer an ICD with consistent proc times so that I could weave my CDs around it. Not like shot priorities change when procs happen, you just delay CDs for em.

That aside, this is a good change.
Healers trinkets are pretty rubbish right now. I took a DPS trinket that proc's haste when I do damage. Since im Disc, and I do damage to heal, this was the smarter decision over an actual healers trinket which only gives me 29k mana on a 3 minute cooldown.

Fix healers trinkets. Make them more flashy like a DPS or Tanking trinket. Our options are very limited. And the options we do have are terrible.
Any chance we could have this RNG mitigation added to every single aspect of the game?

Cheers.
1) What exactly determines what an RPPM effect's average proc interval should be? Is it based off its raw RPPM rate? Is it affected by haste? Is it just a magic number assigned on a per-proc basis like ye olde ICD? Does an ICD on the RPPM effect change it?

2) Does this apply to every RPPM proc, or just trinkets? E.g. warrior T15 2pc, legendary meta gems, and weapon enchants are also all RPPM effects; are they affected?

Lastly, as just a commentary, I don't like this change because it alters the overall proc rate. This isn't just adjusting RPPM's pseudorandomness to make them more reliable. Shaving off the bottom of the bell curve on bad RNG without touching the top of it means the RPPM number is no longer an accurate measure of how many procs you should expect per minute(after adjusting for haste). I was hoping whichever approach was used would maintain the exact same number of average procs per minute and just steepen the bell curve's hump, meaning you'd see fewer unlucky stretches but also fewer lucky streaks.
Sounds like a good compromise.
03/13/2013 09:06 AMPosted by Nethaera
For 5.2, we made a change to trinkets to make them less predictable and less boring with the RPPM system.


Ok, is anyone else beginning to feel like we are being subjected to a curse rather than a benefit here? What comes to mind is this "May you live in interesting times."

There are some things in this game that should simply be functional.

As a player, I don't need every single thing to be interesting. I do not need my AOE rotation to be interesting (GC mentioned this a while ago, I think with regard to priests). I do not need my trinket proc to be interesting. I merely need it to be functional.

Now, I want my character to be interesting, I want lore to be interesting, I want my rotation to be somewhat interesting in that it's not one button, but as far as my rotation goes, above all things, as a raider, I simply want it to be functional. I want to be able to get the job done without "interesting complexity" that simply turns out to be mindless, pointless complexity for some vague "interesting" goal.

I find interest in the enounters themselves, in the world of Pandaria, in the people I meet along the way. Those are all truly interesting.

But, an interesting RPPM proc that is not functional does not support my goals in the game. Perhaps it is interesting to theorycrafters. However, I would much rather not be subjected to this kind of rng when it comes to my trinket of all things. For goodness sake, just make it work.

And please, lay off the "interesting" occasionally, and focus just a bit more on basic, simple functionality.
03/13/2013 09:42 AMPosted by Moarbier
For 5.2, we made a change to trinkets to make them less predictable and less boring with the RPPM system.


Ok, is anyone else beginning to feel like we are being subjected to a curse rather than a benefit here? What comes to mind is this "May you live interesting times."

There are some things in this game that should simply be functional.

As a player, I don't need every single thing to be interesting. I do not need my AOE rotation to be interesting (GC mentioned this a while ago, I think with regard to priests). I do not need my trinket proc to be interesting. I merely need it to be functional.

Now, I want my character to be interesting, I want lore to be interesting, I want my rotation to be somewhat interesting in that it's not one button, but as far as my rotation goes, above all things, as a raider, I simply want it to be functional. I want to be able to get the job done without "interesting complexity" that simply turns out to be mindless, pointless complexity for some vague "interesting" goal.

I find interest in the enounters themselves, in the world of Pandaria, in the people I meet along the way. Those are all truly interesting.

But, an interesting RPPM proc that is not functional does not support my goals in the game. Perhaps it is interesting to theorycrafters. However, I would much rather not be subjected to this kind of rng when it comes to my trinket of all things. For goodness sake, just make it work.

And please, lay off the "interesting" occasionally, and focus just a bit more on basic, simple functionality.

I agree with this post. As it stands, most of these trinkets are not functional at all. I am going to be skipping almost every trinket in this tier as a healer. What is also absurd is a rogue in our group being unable to get below 10% expertise because of a trinket.
Any chance we could have this RNG mitigation added to every single aspect of the game?

Cheers.


I love you
03/13/2013 09:06 AMPosted by Nethaera
MAX(1, 1+((TimeSinceLastSuccessfulProc/AverageProcInterval)-1.5)*3).

Is AverageProcInterval calculated including the user's haste? Or is it the average proc interval for 0% haste?
I do not see [Volatile Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault] on the list?
03/13/2013 09:42 AMPosted by Moarbier
For 5.2, we made a change to trinkets to make them less predictable and less boring with the RPPM system.


Ok, is anyone else beginning to feel like we are being subjected to a curse rather than a benefit here? What comes to mind is this "May you live interesting times."

There are some things in this game that should simply be functional.

As a player, I don't need every single thing to be interesting. I do not need my AOE rotation to be interesting (GC mentioned this a while ago, I think with regard to priests). I do not need my trinket proc to be interesting. I merely need it to be functional.

Now, I want my character to be interesting, I want lore to be interesting, I want my rotation to be somewhat interesting in that it's not one button, but as far as my rotation goes, above all things, as a raider, I simply want it to be functional. I want to be able to get the job done without "interesting complexity" that simply turns out to be mindless, pointless complexity for some vague "interesting" goal.

I find interest in the enounters themselves, in the world of Pandaria, in the people I meet along the way. Those are all truly interesting.

But, an interesting RPPM proc that is not functional does not support my goals in the game. Perhaps it is interesting to theorycrafters. However, I would much rather not be subjected to this kind of rng when it comes to my trinket of all things. For goodness sake, just make it work.

And please, lay off the "interesting" occasionally, and focus just a bit more on basic, simple functionality.


A blue would probably answer this as follows:

We respectfully disagree. Basic trinkets that function the same with a stat ramp up are mindless and don't contribute much to the game. We want trinket choice to be difficult decisions, not obvious cookie cutter answers that theorycrafters determine for the bulk of the playerbase. They should be exciting and pursued in raids, not ho-hum gear drops that barely get a second thought.

I could go on, but you get the idea. In a game as old as this, the team has long since established 'functional' and 'boring'. The only place they have left to go is 'interesting'.
In a game as old as this, the team has long since established 'functional' and 'boring'. The only place they have left to go is 'interesting'.


I would agree with your probable blue answer there, I've heard their side of this before with other areas they they are trying to make "interesting."

At this point my feeling is that they are not necessarily (in all cases) doing this for the player, but to have their dev team do something more interesting and challenging.

It's for the developers, not the players.
03/13/2013 09:49 AMPosted by Kretan


Ok, is anyone else beginning to feel like we are being subjected to a curse rather than a benefit here? What comes to mind is this "May you live interesting times."

There are some things in this game that should simply be functional.

As a player, I don't need every single thing to be interesting. I do not need my AOE rotation to be interesting (GC mentioned this a while ago, I think with regard to priests). I do not need my trinket proc to be interesting. I merely need it to be functional.

Now, I want my character to be interesting, I want lore to be interesting, I want my rotation to be somewhat interesting in that it's not one button, but as far as my rotation goes, above all things, as a raider, I simply want it to be functional. I want to be able to get the job done without "interesting complexity" that simply turns out to be mindless, pointless complexity for some vague "interesting" goal.

I find interest in the enounters themselves, in the world of Pandaria, in the people I meet along the way. Those are all truly interesting.

But, an interesting RPPM proc that is not functional does not support my goals in the game. Perhaps it is interesting to theorycrafters. However, I would much rather not be subjected to this kind of rng when it comes to my trinket of all things. For goodness sake, just make it work.

And please, lay off the "interesting" occasionally, and focus just a bit more on basic, simple functionality.

I agree with this post. As it stands, most of these trinkets are not functional at all. I am going to be skipping almost every trinket in this tier as a healer. What is also absurd is a rogue in our group being unable to get below 10% expertise because of a trinket.


agreed, outside of weapons trinkets are the most important piece of gear - I really don't need more RNG in this game. When it comes to on demand healing, burst damage, etc - the last thing I want is RNG.
I was always confused about Wushoolay's Final Choice, as sometimes it would not proc for about 5 minutes of a fight, and then proc back to back to back for the remainder of the encounter.

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