Lead PvP Designer Confirms Global WW at 2%

Arenas
The biggest weakness that WW monks currently have is leveling to 90 and spamming BGs to gear. WW also has a higher skill cap than most classes so you can't just log on and face roll.

I've watched a number of the top PvPers playing WW monk and having a lot of success in 5.3. This includes Hoodrych on his brand new monk, Hoodrchi and Venruki on his newish monk, Venfuki.

Blizz can't buff WW damage. It seems the PvP community forgets so quickly this is primarily a PvE raiding game. All damage is based around raid boss encounters and will always be adjusted according to how each class is fairing in the raid environment.

Pretty much every class needs passive DR. Notice that some of the best PvP classes currently have passive DR that doesn't really affect their damage. Spriest (shadow form), mage (flame glow), DK (blood presence), etc, all sit in passive DR while pumping out massive damage.
03/21/2013 08:09 AMPosted by Sgtjonson
Blizz can't buff WW damage. It seems the PvP community forgets so quickly this is primarily a PvE raiding game. All damage is based around raid boss encounters and will always be adjusted according to how each class is fairing in the raid environment.

Go check out the Damage Dealing forums. There is quite a bit of analysis, and proof, that monks are behind in the PVE aspect. Heck, go look at Raidbots.

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25N/all/14/60/default/

I think they're hesitant to adjust WW because they made SO much depend on weapon damage and not AP (not to mention Rune of Reorigination). Thus, they feel once WW gets more gear, they will scale much better (which I think in part is true). They balanced too hard around BiS - which in turn left WW in non-BiS gear behind their counterparts. So, if you're not in T2 2/2, you hit FAR too weak compared to a DK or rogue in the same gear. WW scales far too exponentially compared to other classes that scaled 'more' linearly.
lol this is the true story with every class - Low % played = There MUST be something wrong, high % = FOTM.

The high ranked monks I've seen say anything about the changes is that the class is different now with the mastery change.

Outside of gear difference - I personally have no survivability issues with my monk. It all comes down to effective Defensive CD & CC management. There are sooo many classes you can null out completely when they go swifty on you. Which to me means there isn't a survivability issue. Our Damage isn't too bursty but sometimes weird stuff happens. To me our damage is more of the sustained type kind of like frost DKs back in 5.1 (now they're kind of overwhelming lol). But the high amount of control we've got makes up for it.
03/21/2013 08:17 AMPosted by Adornafist
I think they're hesitant to adjust WW because
of S5 DKs
meaning they dont want a re-peat.
fixed lol
I have trouble switching to any other character because I immediately miss the monk toolkit.

Then I hop back on my monk and miss my dks crazy damage output.

Patiently waiting a few weeks for tyrannical weapons so I can do reasonable damage.

Kinda wish the item upgrade vendor was still around.
If their "global presentation" is 2% and yet their presentation in high rating bracket is also ..2%, then isn't it fine?

If rogue only takes 5% of world population but account for 50% of the high rating, then it is a problem, since it signals that majority of people who play a rogue will have a slot in high rating bracket which isn't true in the Monk case.
You failed to read the MOST IMPORTANT part of that:

Looking at arena representation as an indicator of balance here isn't reliable
It's because monks are gay.

/thread
I could give a damn about representation. JUST MAKE MY CLASS VIABLE!
I've watched a number of the top PvPers playing WW monk and having a lot of success in 5.3.


Now tell me which stocks show the biggest gain on the Dow Jones Industrial Average and I promise I'll share the profits with you. :)

Maybe not many players play monk because of the melee class bloat. I mean look at this patch: blizzard made rogues a ranged class because there were too many melee ;)
In all seriousness, Monk's damage mechanic of building stacks favors itself to pairing with classes that have on demand burst. I think Monk representation will rise slightly. Ring of Peace is something unique that monk brings to the table and should prop the representation up by itself, barring any new nerfs.
When monks get the gear to do dk-like dmg - its on son

Seriously though, their low end scaling needs to be increased since the nerfs. They need the same overall power output, not crappy at low gear and awesome at high.
I think a lot of monks representation just has to do with players caring less if they bother to level one. I mean if you had been playing this game since the beginning, leveled most classes in the past, and had yet another class show up for you to do again from scratch, you would want to? I know I didn't.

The only reason DKs were so popular is because half the work was done for you when you started at level 55. However, even if Monks started there, I wouldn't play them because I'm happy with my original toons (not necessarily their performance), and do not want to walk away from all the things I have earned with them that are not account wide.

Add all the balancing issues to the mess, Monks, in my mind should not have been added given that many of the original classes and specs of this game are still under represented, unwanted and unviable in rated PvP as of today.

Given that it is too late now, I believe the developers concern about Monks representation should be held until later in MoP specifically because this expansion has been the most alt unfriendly yet, and players just haven't bothered with them.
LOL at complaining about having to build up to do damage. Try playing a demo lock where your damage output is laughable until 30-60 sec later when you're finally at maybe 500 demonic fury. If they feel the need to address one class/spec combo, maybe they should look at other under-represented specs too.
You haven't played WW monk in arena much if you think you have it bad as a warlock compared to their burst build up.

Be awesome if they could build it up and then bust it out at range on a cc'd target. You have so much flexibility as a ranged class. Melee has to charge into danger 100% of the time to get their dmg in. Charge into range of every CC that will stop their burst.

So you build it up over 30-60 seconds (if your match makes it that long) and then burst but the other team hears the burst notice and immediately stuns/fears/roots/poly's you. If it lasts long enough your entire burst is wasted and it will take forever to get another burst ready. Good times. If only they could burst from range, safe from CC or other abilities that would stop the burst.

That is the WW monk burst experience. It sours the tongue. WW monks really need more flexibility in choosing when they can burst for 30% extra. Just needs a cooldown or something.
The class isn't being played because it was designed poorly, and while some find it fun most do not.


I dunno exactly what "poor design" means, but I tried leveling a monk and it was definitely not fun. And that's saying quite a bit because I managed to get every class to 85 in the last xpac.
remove monks, its clear blizz just halfassed their release just so they could go WE HAF NEW CLASS YOU PAY SUB NAO
You failed to read the MOST IMPORTANT part of that:

Looking at arena representation as an indicator of balance here isn't reliable
03/21/2013 07:20 AMPosted by Dezia
WW Monk Representation is low because , no one feels compelled to play them. Which is a DESIGN issue.


If you are compelled to play it, it is likely because it is overpowered and FOTM. No one wanted to start from level one in the first season and probably be behind a few weeks in gear. Those that did do that, are still not experts in the class.

Those that are high rating in arena know the game inside and out, and know their current class like the back of their hand.

Monks will probably continue to be lower represented until the end of the expansion.


This is such a ridiculous argument.

People have had plenty of time to level and learn the class.
LOL at complaining about having to build up to do damage. Try playing a demo lock where your damage output is laughable until 30-60 sec later when you're finally at maybe 500 demonic fury. If they feel the need to address one class/spec combo, maybe they should look at other under-represented specs too.


I was pvping as Demo just before I switched to my monk and you are right they are pretty similar. One difference however is if we get cc'd during our brew up time we will only have a few seconds remaining of burst. Demo however can just pop out of meta afterwards and only have a small fury loss.
If monks had more damage they'd be insanely OP. They already have absolutely ridiculous control and their cooldowns on their defensives are extremely short.

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