There is no point to the utility argument PvP

Paladin
We do have alot of strong, life saving utility but we wouldn't need that for ourselves or teammates if we could just do decent damage.
That is literally the worst argument I have ever seen
Though technically correct! If we could literally faceroll harder, we wouldn't need to do anything but swifty macro to victory. It'd be like S5. And we all know how well that worked out for us. (which is why it's an awful argument!)
Utility should stay the same, just increase our survivability.
One more CD, or make DP stronger. >.<
Here's a quote from mirror-universe Zombie:
We do have alot of damage, but we wouldn't need that if we just had some strong, life saving utility for ourselves or teammates.

So... yes, we wouldn't need [some tools], if we had [other tools]. This is an almost universally true statement though, and not especially illuminative here.
Nah guys Ret is "Fine" remember?
Nah guys Ret is "Fine" remember?


You are only allowed to say that if you've at least obtained t2 once in your life.
You are only allowed to say that if you've at least obtained t2 once in your life.

well shoot
That is literally the worst argument I have ever seen
I'm fine with our damage. Wtb sacred shield baseline with a talent or glyph to buff its effect and make WoG crit 30-50% more often when the shield's up.

And a fear break.
We do have alot of strong, life saving utility but we wouldn't need that for ourselves or teammates if we could just do decent damage.

Yea, Ret Paladin CC and Utility are really strong.. CHARGE SHOCKWAVE HEROIC LEAP CHARGE "FUUUU"..... *dead*
I want cata sacred shield back for ret.

I heard someone arguing that it was a numbskull no skill ability like warrior's second wind, but I beg to differ. Sure it was passive, but waiting for it to proc before hitting yourself with a wog or two certainly takes a little more skill than doing nothing.

Also divine protection useable while CC'd would be nice.

I always like a little extra survivability:)
There was a reason it was passive - it was our equivalent to having passive all-the-time damage reduction and infinite duration stances/presences/forms, so it had to be passive.

Nowadays, in the brave new world of MoP, the fully passive damage reductions are gone, as is the Cata SS, but the presences, etc., remain (and some of them give better defences than ever). Funny how removing 'boring' passive effects always seems to hit Paladins harder than others (e.g. the old CC duration reduction talents). This leads to a cycle of 'rationalising' class abilities, nerfing pallies, followed by having to buff Ret's personal survivability (because Prot's is seen to by virtue of being a tank spec and Holy's by being a healer and because it's always made viable), then another nerf, another buff...

I'm not saying that Ret is terrible, but personal survivability seems lacking. "Focus the Ret!" is still the rule.

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