Heroic Scenarios 496 ilvl?

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I feel like I'm missing something.

You expect people to do heroic scenarios AFTER being almost fully geared in raid finder gear? What is the point of doing them and having them reward ilvl476 epics then?

EDIT:

To simplify my "problem" for people:

Heroic Scenarios require ilvl496 to get in. They drop ilvl476 (and probably 483 based on the datamined items) gear. They MAY have a RARE chance to drop 502. (It's possible it's bugged and it's intended to always drop 502 when gear drops, which would invalidate this point, but there is still the bigger issue below)

Explain to me why anyone would queue for a scenario that takes twice (if not longer) to finish, only to get gear that isn't even better than the gear they have?

A heroic scenario has increased health, damage, etc. on mobs. There are bonus objectives during a scenario, and if even one is missed, all bonus valor for doing said heroic scenario is forfeited. Most likely at this point, everyone would leave the group to re-queue.

If they intend to keep an ilvl496 on the scenario, it needs to drop 500-502 gear, and have the bonus valor scale based on how many bonus objectives are failed. Otherwise, heroic scenarios will rarely be done.

I understand it's the PTR and things are always changing, but as with the LFR ilvl fiasco, afraid if something isn't said, it will launch like this, and there will be days/weeks/months of development time on heroic scenarios wasted.

EDIT2: Bolded the part the raiders and non-casual players will have a problem with in this system.
I feel like I'm missing something.
yep

Heroic scenarios are meant for non raiders.
cause this isn't true in the slightest.

03/28/2013 02:35 AMPosted by Reinhilde
You expect people to do heroic scenarios AFTER being almost fully geared in raid finder gear?
Faster valor cap, 502 epic rewards better than cruddy 463s from heroics, even if it's just gona be vendored
I feel like I'm missing something here.


Ever heard of 'gearing up'?
should also point out that ptr testing ilvl is not indicative of what the ilvl req on live will be, however it doesn't change anything else stated.
cause this isn't true in the slightest.


I want to slap you already.

Scenarios are not meant for raiders, even heroic scenarios. Next thing you know, you'll be saying LFR is meant for raiders.
Scenarios are not meant for raiders, even heroic scenarios. Next thing you know, you'll be saying LFR is meant for raiders.


Raiders are not a special bread. Between raids, they consume the same content in the game you do if you classify yourself as "not a raider".

Everything is meant for players. Raiders are players, casuals are players, hardcores are players, etc..
03/28/2013 02:48 AMPosted by Berith
Scenarios are not meant for raiders, even heroic scenarios. Next thing you know, you'll be saying LFR is meant for raiders.


Raiders are not a special bread. Between raids, they consume the same content in the game you do if you classify yourself as "not a raider".

Everything is meant for players. Raiders are players, casuals are players, hardcores are players, etc..


I am referring to the main audience for them. Scenarios have never been meant for raiders. They have been meant for non-raiders.

Raids are meant for raiders, but non-raiders still run them occasionally. Just like scenarios/dungeons aren't meant for raiders, but they still run them.
I am referring to the main audience for them. Scenarios have never been meant for raiders. They have been meant for non-raiders.

Raids are meant for raiders, but non-raiders still run them occasionally. Just like scenarios/dungeons aren't meant for raiders, but they still run them.


And the problem iiisssss....

What exactly?
-we arent going to make 5 mans to invalidate older tier content

-release scenarios with better loot than t14 LFR

so much flip flopping going on :/
I am referring to the main audience for them. Scenarios have never been meant for raiders. They have been meant for non-raiders.


The "main" audience is all players. They are not meant to gear people up quickly, unlike the LFR you can spam run these and as Blizzard has stated on multiple occasions they do not wish to have the old tier of raiding content completely obliterated by new content. This is why it drops 496 (as a chance) so that even if you spam run them you are simply getting equivalent raid gear from the previous tier.

LFR you cannot spam run because you only get loot once a week plus coins which with 6 bosses available means 1 extra loot roll per boss every 2 weeks.

Raids are meant for raiders, but non-raiders still run them occasionally. Just like scenarios/dungeons aren't meant for raiders, but they still run them.


Wrong. All content is meant for all players. Blizzard simply tunes them differently for different gear levels to allow for character progression and a sense of achievement upon accomplishing said content.
-we arent going to make 5 mans to invalidate older tier content

-release scenarios with better loot than t14 LFR

so much flip flopping going on :/


Exactly.

On top of that, the heroic scenarios reward ilvl gear MUCH lower than the ilvl required to get into them. It doesn't make any sense.
-we arent going to make 5 mans to invalidate older tier content

-release scenarios with better loot than t14 LFR

so much flip flopping going on :/


1) Heroic scenarios do not -automatically- drop 496 pieces. It is a -chance- at a piece at a similar rate to the LFR, yet at a much slower pace because they can be spam run. Think of them like your shot at blue 450 pieces out of current scenarios.

2) T14 LFR still has to be run at least once by all characters even if they do heroic scenarios at its a quick shot at some great loot with a 35% (Unsure on exact number) chance at loot specific to -your- spec and in 5.3 to any spec you can play as your class. Better than most raiders get.

3) There is no flip flopping, you just aren't looking at the facts and numbers.
I am referring to the main audience for them. Scenarios have never been meant for raiders. They have been meant for non-raiders.

Raids are meant for raiders, but non-raiders still run them occasionally. Just like scenarios/dungeons aren't meant for raiders, but they still run them.


You're elevating artificial barriers on content that just do not exist. Challenge mode dungeons, Scenarios, world bosses, raids, dailies, fishing, cooking, about all content in the game is meant to be played by anyone and has no particular audience.

Blizzard makes content for the WoW playerbase. You as an individual pick what you want to do in game. I'm ilvl 494, I still queue up for Heroics, hit greed on every item and just have fun in there running around and killing crap to blow steam off.
the question needs to be asked, why not make new dungeons? I dont mind scenarios, but it's a little alarming how the number of dungeons per xpac seems to be getting smaller and smaller :|
LFR you cannot spam run because you only get loot once a week plus coins which with 6 bosses available means 1 extra loot roll per boss every 2 weeks.


Sorry, no, you can spam run the old LFR and you can blow as many bonus rolls as you want in a week on a single boss to get that drop you want. LFR is now the catch up mechanism.

the question needs to be asked, why not make new dungeons? I dont mind scenarios, but it's a little alarming how the number of dungeons per xpac seems to be getting smaller and smaller :|


It's been answered. First, we just got a new dungeon, it's called Throne of Thunder. As for 5 man dungeons, the devs have said it : Too much work goes into these and it gets blown away by the player base in too little time.
Someone explained it better.
03/28/2013 03:00 AMPosted by Berith
LFR you cannot spam run because you only get loot once a week plus coins which with 6 bosses available means 1 extra loot roll per boss every 2 weeks.


Sorry, no, you can spam run the old LFR and you can blow as many bonus rolls as you want in a week on a single boss to get that drop you want. LFR is now the catch up mechanism.


Yes, because the people LFR was created for - those without the time to raid - have the time to sit in an hour+ long queue, then spend 2 hours in said raid multiple times a week.

No. If they did, they'd do regular raids.

You have yet to make a single argument explaining how this makes sense.

ilvl496 requirement that will take about double the time scenarios now take, require actual coordination, not just burning, then only have a chance to reward gear much lower ilvl than required to get in. There's a possibility it will have a rare chance for 502 gear, but that'd be like if dungeons dropped 458 gear, and heroics also dropped 458 gear with a 460 requirement with a rare chance for 463. No one would do them because the regular would take much less time.

the question needs to be asked, why not make new dungeons? I dont mind scenarios, but it's a little alarming how the number of dungeons per xpac seems to be getting smaller and smaller :|


It's been answered. First, we just got a new dungeon, it's called Throne of Thunder. As for 5 man dungeons, the devs have said it : Too much work goes into these and it gets blown away by the player base in too little time.


You clearly need to learn to read before you post.

They said no new 5 mans because it does not "fit their progression model" and invalidates old raids. Nothing about being blown away by the player. Scenarios probably take just as long as 5 mans to make. If not longer due to constant "cutscenes" and voice acting.

To simplify my "problem" for people:

Heroic Scenarios require ilvl496 to get in. They drop ilvl476 (and probably 483 based on the datamined items) gear. They MAY have a RARE chance to drop 502.

Explain to me why anyone would queue for a scenario that takes twice (if not longer) to finish, only to get gear that isn't even better than the gear they have? And if you fail even ONE bonus objective out of the many in the scenario, all the bonus valor is forfeited. Why would anyone stick around after the scenario group failed?

If they intend to keep an ilvl496 on the scenario, it needs to drop 500-502 gear, and have the bonus valor scale based on how many bonus objectives are failed. Otherwise, heroic scenarios will rarely be done.
the question needs to be asked, why not make new dungeons? I dont mind scenarios, but it's a little alarming how the number of dungeons per xpac seems to be getting smaller and smaller :|


First let me explain the difference between a 10 level expansion and a 5 level expansion. At its inception BC had 15 dungeons for 10 levels, with 15 heroics that you had to then unlock by getting rep with each faction. This was possible because of the amount of levels and the fact that the requirement to get those 10 levels was much higher than it is now, going from 58-70 now you barely hit half of those instances.

Wrath had 12 at its inception, and much like BC required a few more considering the level gap yet fewer because the required effort to reach 80 was lower. You still barely hit half of these now.

Cataclysm, the only other 5 level expansion might I add, had 9 at its inception. This again shows the need of effort to go from 80-85 and the amount of dungeon content needed to gear up for raids.

MoP has the same number as Cata did at its inception. So the argument of there being less dungeons is fallacious.

The second point why dungeons aren't being added is because they require equivalent level gear to last tiers raid content, because the amount of QQ that would ensue if it was less than the old raid content would be horrendous. This creates the dilemma of making all the previous content void because you can spam run the new heroics to gear up and thus skip a tier of raiding.

In the current model you have to at least run the content once to see it and so that takes at least a projected week of gearing up to see the new content in the new LFR. Thus giving Blizzard an extra week they did not have originally. This is Blizzard's reasoning, it gives them more development time and it keeps a semi-linear progression model that protects against someone simply skipping over content.
-we arent going to make 5 mans to invalidate older tier content


Why not make 5-mans that drop ilevel 463 gear?
03/28/2013 02:49 AMPosted by Reinhilde


Raiders are not a special bread. Between raids, they consume the same content in the game you do if you classify yourself as "not a raider".

Everything is meant for players. Raiders are players, casuals are players, hardcores are players, etc..


I am referring to the main audience for them. Scenarios have never been meant for raiders. They have been meant for non-raiders.

Raids are meant for raiders, but non-raiders still run them occasionally. Just like scenarios/dungeons aren't meant for raiders, but they still run them.


Scenarios dont have a specific audience lol... They were made so people could do and see extra content. Reread their blog post when they introduced them.

Heroic scenarios are meant for anyone who wants a challenge. Same as Brawler's. If you wanted to do the most challenging content in those areas, you may have to, god forbid, buy some valor gear or run an LFR or actually do a raid once in awhile. If you dont want to put in the effort, dont expect to be able to run the heroic modes or get the same rewards as the people who do.

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