need help with monk tanking

i recently rolled monk tank for my guild and i am having diffuculty with my survivability.
i ran toes lfr with a dk tank in my guild and i died constantly on tsulong and lei she, i usually keep 100% or close to uptime on shuffle/zen sphere and use elusive brew and gaurd when needed, but my stagger jump so much sometimes that i am using almost all of my chi on purify.
any help would be greatly appreciated
Make sure you keep Shuffle active. I usually keep mine at 80% uptime. Question : What is your rotation?
i pull with dizzying haze>keg smash>blackout kick>zen sphere and then tiger palm and jab for two chi then blackout kick again and repeat except no dizzying haze
Use Guard and Expel Harm whenever you're below 80%.

When I tank I use Chi Wave, it generally heals for a lot more than Zen Sphere does.
You don't seem to have many glyphs other than glyph of fortifying brew.
Try grabbing glyph of Guard; yes it will only absorb magical damage, however, take a look at its secondary effect: Any heals you apply to yourself while Guarding are increased by 30%

So ask yourself, What's better? Absorbing 70k+ damage from a hit and having to wait another 30 seconds to make use of the guard, or keeping guard up for 30 seconds, healing yourself with expel harm and chi wave?

Also, if the encounter allows it, you can try setting up transcendence on a designated area; allowing you to keep some distance between you and the boss while you and your healers try to bring you back to full health.

Now, if you are unsure about your gems/reforge, go to this site:
you'll find that it will give you a much needed breather.

As a monk you'll find that you take more damage from bosses, unlike our bear relatives; druids, we do not have that sweet damage reduction from thick hide, instead we have stagger. Stagger allows you to instantly take 80% of the damage dealt to you, but the other 20% is divided into a debuff, which brings me to purifying brew. Purifying brew allows you to completely get rid of stagger's debuff - pretty sweet right? However, it does cost two chi, which will force you to balance it out between that and shuffle from blackout kick. You'll notice that the stagger debuff will at most times be green, but if you take a significant amount of damage it turns yellow, if a heavy hit has been dealt to you, it turns red. The only time you SHOULD use purifying brew is when the color changes to yellow or red. If it's green, don't bother, just focus on keeping your shuffle active.
But if you do have some extra chi to spare, use a PB on a green stagger.
Try grabbing glyph of Guard

The ONLY time you should use that glyph is on magic fights, the 30% healing increase in nothing compared to the absorb you get from guard with vengeance stacked.

04/03/2013 12:37 AMPosted by Gurbz
Absorbing 70k+ damage

Try 200k+
Try 200k+

My mistake. Anyway, I found having guard up for those 30 secs a bit helpful, despite the magical absorption.

I'll have to take a look at it again without the glyph.
Also, purifying brew is only 1 chi to use :)
Also, purifying brew is only 1 chi to use :)

haha I was not in the right state of mind while typing this out. Guess that's what I get for browsing the forums at 4am :P
One thing I noticed with my guilds monk tank, we scale with gear better. Meaning the better your gear the better your mitigation gets drastically. For a while our BM was the squishy tank but now he is pretty solid with better gear. Some fights he is easier than the DK to heal.
Ignore the advice about the Guard Glyph. Yes, you want to use it when you're fighting a boss with heavy magic damage. No, you do not want to use it for its healing effect. In a raid, the extra 30% healing from your self-heals mean nothing when healers are dumping heals into you because you're not using your defensive CDs properly. Your priority as a tank isn't to boost your own self-healing, but to do what you can to mitigate as much damage as possible.

Here's the trick with guard: it scales with your Vengeance, the AP boost you get from getting whacked as a tank. While you have low Vengeance, it will absorb a piddly 70k...but when you're rolling 100k or more Vengeance, suddenly it absorbs 2-300k. Solo tanking Heroic Wind Lord and all his adds has netted me Guards of a million damage before. Knowing WHEN to use it will set you apart from the bad Brewmasters: use it to soften a blow of a predictable hard hit, like Tsulong's Shadow Breath OR use it immediately after that hit, when your Vengeance skyrockets and you immediately stop damage for five seconds while your healers casually get you back up.

Also, ignore the advice about Shuffle. You want it up as much as possible. You're aiming for 100% uptime. Shuffle is your armor. It gives you mitigation equal to plate tanks and so you want that to be up as much as possible. It's much easier now that the Chi spells have had their costs removed.

Some immediate gearing suggestions: all those +stam gems and enchants? Lose them. You don't want to be gearing straight stam ever, unless you're doing 25-man Heroic content or content which you're woefully undergeared for, which you're not. You want your haste to be at a comfortable level (for me, it's ~6500). The talent Ascension gives you a little leeway in that number. Don't be afraid to stop aiming for 15% expertise until you have the gear for it. It's a controversial subject, yes, but I found my survivability shooting through the roof when I went down to about 8-9% when I was at your gear level and put all those reforges back into Haste, Crit, and Mastery.

Regarding the two bosses you specifically mention: Lei Shi is not a fun fight for us. We cannot stagger any of her damage, so we take it all. Other tanks have this problem as well. A couple of tips: spec into Diffuse Magic, the Guard Glyph, and Zen Meditation. The latter will not break since she only does magic and you can ride out an entire protector phase with it up.

Where we shine on Lei Shi is on add control. Have your cotank take her when she bubbles (yes, she can still be taunted while immune) and you collect the adds. Keg Throw and kite them forever while your DPS burns one down.

Tsulong is a heavy magic damage fight with very predictable damage. Zen Meditation and Diffuse Magic for the breaths.

The key to being any tank nowadays, especially monks, is knowing what is coming and planning for it. The days of eating everything and having your healers fill you back up are long gone. Think about the fight ahead of you: is it heavily magic or physical? Why glyphs will be useful? Dampen Harm or Diffuse Magic? I need to survive three breaths before the next phase, which order should CDs be rolled in.
my survivability has gone way up now, thanks for all the help guys

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