Ret is Worthless...thank you development team

Take one of my guildies as an example:

This is, IMO, a great example of a well geared, gemmed, enchated, reforged Ret.

She's a little bit under the hit cap and a little over exp cap without using any of her JC eyes.
Ret is mid tier as in dps but all that utility.
'The charts' don't interest me. People should stop looking to them as gospel, it's embarrassing.


I think the biggest issue is that people rolled a Paladin when they should have picked a different class.

Quoted for truth. Mindless face-smashing is for Warriors; mindless face-rolling is for DKs. Sort yourselves accordingly, people.

04/20/2013 05:03 AMPosted by Carbuncle
It's actual dps output is not in a bad spot

Technically relevant semantics point, but do you mean actual DPS or raw damage? Because there is a very fine difference, and the raw damage number is the far more important one to look at - a fact many seem to either forget, or of which are completely ignorant.

I was talking about in comparison to other specs, the actual damage difference is incredibly minimal. Even then, with WoL and raidbots, generally the people who complain about Ret don't even know how to properly analyze that data.

As far as specscore is concerned, it's probably the best method of comparing Ret's performance to other dps specs, but just because it's some of the best data we have available ( without getting nitty & gritty with WoL ) doesn't necessarily mean that it is good data.

The top quote is especially true.
So many assumptions. Does it feel right to proclaim things without first hand knowledge and only assumptions? It is not hard to have holy power up and hit all the right buttons, problem is you dont get the damage other classes of the same gear get for the same actions. My gems and enchants are fine compared to what people are willing to spend time and gold on. I did make an adjustment for surviability so I dont die as fast but the damage is still basically the same. I do out DPS all the other RET pallies BG's and find it very easy to kill other RETs in a BG. But, I never out DPS the Locks, mages, warriors, or DK's. I used to in Warth.

So why should it make a difference to the developers if the RET has a chance at equal DPS output with the other DPS classes? Take away some of my healing, wait you already have DKs and warriors seem to heal themselves better that I can and put out way more damage.

Do yourself a favor check all the expert cites on Damage output and you will see RET on the bottom. I do feel bad for rogues, they used to be in the top 3, now, wow, so I guess the developers crushed some other class worse.

The real push here is the Developers at a wim decide to make class adjustments with no apparent reason. They never explain or share their decisions and almost always end up patching and patching and patching to try to balance things. Just tell us the plan and we can decide to leave the game and not struggle with the nerf and buff yo-yo.
You seem to be basing a lot of your complaints about how other classes are great at spamming damage into BG crowds like useless !@#$%, and you are jealous of their useless tawtishness and likely die trying to do uselessly twattish things.

You have serious, serious gear issues and it's doubtful that you ever find anyone with "equal" gear, because most people are way smarter with their gear.

Play better and you'll do better.
Have you considered using a PvP weapon and trinkets? You've clearly earned enough honor that you could have a weapon by now, and Iron Belly Wok is actually pretty feeble as trinkets go. I'm skeptical that the Tenacity trinket is helping you much, either.

I mean, you're complaining about damage, but leaving upwards of 7k PvP power (not to mention some large strength bonuses) on the table.
I mean, you're complaining about damage, but leaving upwards of 7k PvP power (not to mention some large strength bonuses) on the table.

To not put a semi-obscure rating number on it, a 470 pvp weapon is 18% pvp power, and each 476 pvp dps trinket, and as a human you should be using two, or using one and the valor trinket, is 5% pvp power plus the damage proc.

28% pvp power, plus the damage procs, plus 6% resilience.
04/18/2013 05:16 PMPosted by Chyron
I am not sure if the Developers have a clue about the impact on their subscribers.

I want you to watch something:

It will only take a minute of your time.
If you think that 471 blue sword is even remotely better than the malevolent weapons, you are just plain bad. I don't even think Zerat (which you just got today) is better for pvp. Just get the damn weapon, finish your malevolent set, properly gem, enchant and reforge.

Basically, just stop sucking.
Also, let askmrrobot help you out.
Wow, I should just put on the worst gear in my inventory so the issue wont be about what the toon is wearing. most of you have not been with this game from the start, so you have no clue what it was and what it has become. Just because some self important developer wants to justify his job buy making a nerf or a buff we lose the things that were enjoyable about playing a class.

It just is not true that our damage in warth was just AOE, I can rememer specing Crit and really have a viable damage output. But, you all know, and assume. I guess in the end it really isn't the game that has changed it is the people who believe they know it all and profess they are the expert.

WOW subscriptions were almost 16 million at one time.Their last count was 9 million. Wait until the year Diablo subscribers run out. Maybe when it gets back to the 5 million THE DEVELOPERS WILL GET THE IDEA.

my subscription cancelation with make them 8,999, throw your spineless little good byes and nasty comments but I wont be back to read them....have fun growing fat and trying to feel important by slamming posts of others...nice to get the last word..and for those good paladins who understand this thread, I hope they treat you with respect one day...
The game is always changing, balance is always changing. Every xpac, new levels are added and new abilities as well as new classes, all have to be balanced around. The devs don't do it to make people mad (although that happens a lot), they do it so the game can stay fresh every xpac and then they have ~4 major content patches, maybe a couple more to play with balance along the way in between xpacs.

Rets in particular have probably had the most change over the course of the game since it went live. The spec has gone through major redesigns and countless changes. While there is no hybrid tax per se anymore, you can't possibly want to do mage dps, especially with the utility we have.

Anyways, I wish you the best and hope you find fun in whatever game you decide to play.
04/23/2013 07:42 PMPosted by Chyron
Wow, I should just put on the worst gear in my inventory so the issue wont be about what the toon is wearing. most of you have not been with this game from the start, so you have no clue what it was and what it has become.

Ooh, are we showing off veterancy now?

Cool, because I've got this lovely Sergeant feat of strength, among others...

I mean, if anything, a sense of perspective about the game's history makes it completely laughable to complain this much about the current state. Do you remember when our interrupt was Hammer of Justice? When our "gap closer" was Pursuit of Justice... which was 8%? How about the cast time on Hammer of Wrath, requiring you to stop chasing when the target tried to run away? Not to mention the, y'know, multiple years when Ret was literally the laughingstock of the entire game. And you're upset because we're a few percentage points below where you'd like.

By the way, when you're complaining about being underpowered, gear is automatically and implicitly a part of the issue. Complaining about damage after saying "eh, pass" to an amount of PvP power equivalent to permanent Avenging Wrath is stupid.
This was my first character and I started the day WoW was released in 2004. I switched him over to horde this expansion since alliance was completely dead on my old server.

The paladin as a class is in much better shape than it ever was in vanilla or BC. The vanilla paladin was a buff !@#$% and that was it through every classic raid. You took one paladin for each buff and it didn't matter at all what they did as long as they stayed in the back and kept their assigned buff up every five minutes. Occasionally, they were allowed to tank and dps maybe once MC was on super farm but that was extremely rare.

The BC paladin was a little better off but the stats required were still odd and gimped us no matter what. We needed to stack both strength and intellect as ret and we ended up spread pretty thin. We became excellent single target healers and sometimes were allowed to tank Heroics and Kara but not much else except for a few.

Either you have some really rose colored glasses or you are a whiny wrath baby. You have no clue what you are talking about, your gear is bad and not properly outfitted and you refuse to take constructive criticism on how not to suck.

It isn't the class or spec that is bad, it is you. Reroll another class to halfass and suck at or just quit.
Senior sergeant here. Fun to troll in Org with it as a blood elf paladin, lol.
At ilvl 490 it was possible to beat a 504 Frost DK even if you used it correctly.

had a ret pally beat me in tot the other night on a couple fights. granted i am duel wield however i make no excuses. he is a fantastic player and gear was about the same
I don't PvP if I can avoid it (I'm looking at you, Wrathion) and I'm not an expert player by any means. Only normal-cleared MSV to date and cleared the others through LFR.

Now that I've properly outlined the humble nature of my accomplishments, I will say that I was feeling very frustrated myself with my Ret DPS .... until my item level got about 490. It's now 500. And boy, did things wake up.

In a 25-man LFR made up of mostly similar-geared people, I'm consistently between 5th and 9th on DPS on most runs. I will take that all day long, considering what I can do to heal myself (and others), the raid buffs I can provide, the Auras, all of that. If I want to try to break the DPS meter, I'll jump on my Mage -- and then hope the healers notice me before I get hit the second time and lose the remaining 5 percent of my health that the first shot left behind.

My non-expert opinion is that this class is extremely gear-level-dependent, but once you get over the hump it gets pretty sporty. I've also bucked the trend a little lately and let some gear crit stand rather than reforging to mastery, which seems to have helped real-world-not simulation DPS numbers (although I bet the SoL buff in 5.3 is going to force me to change back again). Either way, I'm doing just fine at the moment.
04/27/2013 11:20 PMPosted by Lyeffion
I've also bucked the trend a little lately and let some gear crit stand rather than reforging to mastery

Just an FYI - at most gear-levels crit is better than mastery. The sites telling people to definitively use a haste > mastery >> crit priority are likely still using old heroic BiS T14 data which set mastery ahead of crit by a very, very small margin.
Havent did a whole lot of pvp this patch but so far it feels like garbage dmg and survivablity is pretty low fighting about any class with burst....and thats about all the other classes besides balance and spriests.

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