Pet Battle Accuracy Changes in Patch 5.3

Pet Battles
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The following abilities have also had their accuracy reduced and are NOT mentioned in this blog:
Alpha Strike
Burn
Conflagrate
Consume
Darkflame
Death Coil
Fury of 1,000 Fists
Gift of Winter's Veil
Gnaw
Gravity
Haywire
Holy Charge
Howling Blast
Huge Fang
Nether Gate
Paralyzing Shock
Pounce
Quicksand
Rampage
Reckless Strike
Sand Bolt
Shot Through The Heart
Siphon Anima
Slither
Stone Rush
Swallow You Whole
Sweep
Tail Sweep
Trihorn Charge


Some of these changes are really bad, particularly changes to the underlined ones as they have cooldowns. I guess the Haywire/Rampage changes are okay because those are abilities that you use for 3 turns in a row, but some of the others are seriously questionable (additionally, a large number of them are Magic - why?).

Sand Bolt, Reckless Strike, Swallow You Whole, and Trihorn Charge are understandable because they had secondary effects. I'm even okay with Death Coil.


where'd you get the list from?
I made it myself with some fiddling in Excel. I took the list Blizzard made and compared it with my own list of abilities that had changed in the latest PTR build. This list is one composed of the abilities that changed on the PTR but Blizzard didn't mention.

Most of the ones in that list have moved to 95% accuracy. Trihorn Charge moved to 85% and a small number of them moved to 90%.
My biggest problem with RNG in pet battles is that it seems like there isn't a choice to avoid it. In Pokémon for example, you can use Fire Blast which has 120 power and 85 accuracy. This move is recommended for almost all Pokémon that want to use a fire move and can learn it. However, if you don't want to risk missing you can use Flamethrower instead, 95 power and 100 accuracy. You won't be able to do as much damage, but you still do a fair amount and you can rest assured that your match won't be decided by an unlucky miss.

With the way that moves are "learned" in pet battles, choices like that can't be made in a lot of pet's movesets. If you want a dragon move to use between cooldowns on Celestial Dragon it's Breath or nothing. And if you do in fact want a 100% accurate move in that slot your damage gets cut in half. That's like saying you can have Fire Blast...or Ember (40 power and 100 accuracy for those that don't know).

I agree that this game would be stale and almost unplayable in it's boringness without some randomness, like move accuracy and crits. But the RNG should be a choice, of higher power and lower accuracy (or a cooldown) or reasonably lower power and 100% accuracy.
They're leaving some randomness in - but are removing it from the important, high-cooldown moves. Spammable moves get to retain it - but your entire combo/set-up won't be getting rocked by a Miss/Dodge on a two round ability.

Really, that's sort of the best of both worlds, here. I am for it in a big way.
Obviously there is a lot to learn before we can say how the new changes will feel. But I like the philosophy behind the changes a lot.

Having 2 mechanics (dodge and miss) that are both opaque just felt (feels) bad. Especially when you are starting out. It's too mysterious and capricious. Removing dodge and adding transparency will go a long way to eliminating most of the complaining, even without balance changes.

Having an ability that will always hit will be great. The RNG opt in idea seems like a good solution. Then if you miss, you feel like it's your own fault, not Blizzard's.
04/05/2013 03:29 AMPosted by Kiamato
Not an answer.
\

It not being an answer you want is not the same as it not being an answer.

04/05/2013 03:29 AMPosted by Kiamato
And when you lose your game because of "a little randomness" it's sure VERY fun.


With no down there is no up. They state very specifically they don't want pet battles to be to predictable.

It is ironic that the blog post could very well be cut and pasted out of most of the post I made on this subject over the last couple/few months.

And to be fair I did warn each and every one of you on several occasions that the changes you got would almost certainly not be the ones you wanted. I have played mmos for many many many years most of it as a pvper, I have never once seen a announced mass change work out the way people want in any of the games I have played. To be fair though this solution with some tweaks seems like a decent compromise.
I personally think "Absorb" should be on that list of abilities vvith nerfed hit or have a CD.

Also, I'm vvith the first poster vvho mentioned the frog chain hex. VVTF?

Something I've been thinking about as vvell:

VVhen you use an ability such as Magma VVave or Tidal VVave (removes all objects created by both teams) to remove traps (lil' rag, curious vvolvar etc), is it intended to activate said trap once it's been removed?

A trap that isn't activated by these abilities is "mind field" because it requires a pet svvap to trigger. Novv, vvhy does Magma VVave and Tidal VVave (the only 2 abilities that I knovv of that could even remove such objects from the battlefield), trigger them upon removal?

There's a chance the trap could go off before you get a chance to remove it, but to have it detonate after it's been removed is ridiculous based on the very very fevv pets that could actually attempt such a task.

These traps have a potential 9 round fuse + a 5 round CD (vvhich means players using these traps are basing they're entire team around a vvhole lot of RNG anyvvay and should need to adapt like everyone else if a pet enters the field vvith an ability to remove said traps) and 99% of the pets have no vvay to avoid these traps. VVhy should the 1% take damage from a trap they successfully removed?

TL;DR - The bomb squad shouldn't be harmed by a successfully disarmed trap.

edit: typos.
Yeah better do something urgent, battle pet against tammers is a pain, they do 4-5 miss / dodge in a row , and never misses, the fly dudes who have a attack 1-3 always hit for 3, thats no RNG , i dont know what it is, maybe only flaw design but its no fun to play, and when u have no fun playing ? yeah ...

Whats the point making things harder people will only stop doing it and geting bored. whos the smart guys behind this stupidity?
Yeah better do something urgent, battle pet against tammers is a pain, they do 4-5 miss / dodge in a row , and never misses, the fly dudes who have a attack 1-3 always hit for 3, thats no RNG , i dont know what it is, maybe only flaw design but its no fun to play, and when u have no fun playing ? yeah ...


And they actually bothered to thank people for constructive criticism when this is the majority of what we really had posted about it.....
Blog TLDR: Base RNG has been taken away and then added back in to most attacks (thanks Simca for the list). 100% accurate, lower damage attacks given to all pets if you want to opt out of the New RNG.

Net RNG change = none, unless you opt out of the risk and use the surefire attacks.

Choosing how much RNG you risk should have a proportional damage reward. I like that they're giving people more choice on that matter.

My dark, shriveled little heart likes it even more that the RNG complainers don't like the choice they've been offered. :)
As a good specific example Blizzard, I think that Shadow Shock and Shadow Slash should not both be changed. It leaves multiple pets without an alternative basic attack. One of those two abilities should remain at 100%.


"Remain" is a funny choice of verb here, considering that the list of moves *currently* at 100% is Laser (and not really even that, I think it can be dodged atm) and, uh... what else again? (Speaking of Laser, I hope its power is being unnerfed to compensate for the fact that so many other moves are becoming more accurate but keeping power levels significantly superior to Laser's. Not because I use any pets with Laser atm, but just because it's not good to have an ability that is "the same thing but worse".)

Raising a wider variety of moves to 100% accuracy is a positive change, but making *everything* 100% would not be - people who want to gamble should be allowed to. And if you really can't handle the fact that your opponent's pet choice may introduce some luck into your match, you can feel free to concede and requeue. Losses aren't tracked anyway, and IIRC PVP retreating doesn't cause damage (if it does, just stand next to a stable master).

If some pets are left without 100% accurate basic attacks, people who really hate RNG can *use other pets*. If this results in changes to the metagame, good. It's not good for it to be too static for too long.

04/05/2013 04:49 AMPosted by Simca
The following abilities have also had their accuracy reduced


By "reduced" do you just mean "not increased", or are some of them going *below* the 90% on an equal level target on live?
04/05/2013 10:38 AMPosted by Hearus
They state very specifically they don't want pet battles to be to predictable.


Although if both sides are serious RNG-haters and set up their teams accordingly, they *could* be 100% predictable except for crits and damage variance. And damage variance is very rarely going to affect TTL -- doing 10 points more or less overkill on the last hit doesn't actually mean anything.

It is ironic that the blog post could very well be cut and pasted out of most of the post I made on this subject over the last couple/few months.


I don't think it's ironic at all; they must have created these forums for a reason, and I think part of it was to let them see what players are discussing and thinking. The fact that they at least partly agree with you really isn't all that surprising, when you look at how many of the counterarguments boiled down to "I don't personally like this thing so it should be changed for everyone". A mix of 100% and non-100% attacks -- with an accompanying power/accuracy tradeoff so that the latter aren't just plain worse -- is a great resolution to the problem.

And even in those notoriously contentions threads, pretty much everyone agreed on having tooltips for accuracy, so the fact they included that is even less surprising.

I personally think "Absorb" should be on that list of abilities vvith nerfed hit or have a CD.


Absorb has nerfed power. It's fine. And giving it a CD would make it too similar to Consume, especially since some pets have them competing for the same slot.

It not being an answer you want is not the same as it not being an answer.


It's not an answer not because I think that it's not an answer, but because I see that there is no logic.


They state very specifically they don't want pet battles to be to predictable.


1. Blizzard prevents addons from scanning pet abilities in PVP duels as of patch 5.2.
2. There are more than 500 unique pets in a game.
3. We are not computers. We select different pets, different abilities, different moves.
4. There are accuracy debuffs in a game.
5. We can make mistakes.
etc
etc
etc

Pet Battles was not, is not and will not be fully predictable in any case.
It's not an answer not because I think that it's not an answer, but because I see that there is no logic.


So because you think it is not an answer, well played.
Hearus is right when it comes to this topic, regardless of whether people want to hear it or not. It's very uncommon for "a little randomness" to change the outcome of the match. The times it does change the outcome causes frustration, sure (that's not always bad, btw), but that is the price you pay.


The opposite is also true, sometimes you win when you shouldn't. And that feels great.

RNG is fun because it's gambling. Nobody complains about the RNG associated with crits. It sucks when you are on the losing end of a crit, but it doesn't feel unfair. This is the perspective shift they are hoping for. I can't say if we are there yet, but at least they have the right idea.

It reminds me a little of when they changed the whole "rested xp" model. You used to earn half xp when you weren't rested and people hated it. Now instead you earn double when you are rested and everybody thinks it's great. This is the kind of attitude shift they are trying to achieve with the RNG in pet battles. Balance is actually pretty good right now, but the forums are full of people complaining about misses. Blizzard is trying to oil that squeaky wheel and achieve happy gambling as opposed to frustrated gambling.
04/05/2013 12:00 PMPosted by Hearus
It's not an answer not because I think that it's not an answer, but because I see that there is no logic.


So because you think it is not an answer, well played.


Casuistry
Some of these changes are really bad, particularly changes to the underlined ones as they have cooldowns. I guess the Haywire/Rampage changes are okay because those are abilities that you use for 3 turns in a row, but some of the others are seriously questionable (additionally, a large number of them are Magic - why?).


When you say "really bad" what do you mean? Is the miss rate going to be worse than in 5.2, even taking dodge into account?

Currently miss is baked into everything. But now they have to build it into every ability individually. If the miss rate is no worse than in 5.2, I don't see this as a problem -- at least in theory. Obviously, balance is going to be all over hell for a while, but it should smooth out eventually.
The opposite is also true, sometimes you win when you shouldn't. And that feels great.


I disagree with that. If I am in an exciting battle with a challenging opponent, who then suddenly misses 3 times in a row and thus seals the game for myself, I am just as disappointed. I can feel their frustration, because I have felt it many times myself, and my victory, which might have been a testament to my skill and planning, is now hollow and pointless.

The only times I take a real, if perverse, pleasure in the RNG screwing my opponent is when they are primarily using the pets I still consider OPed (Idol and Magic Crawdad), which to me just shows a lack of creativity and ruins the game a bit (it forces people to have to adjust their pet choice to counteract those things, and thus limits choices for all). But that's just me.
Most of the ones in that list have moved to 95% accuracy...and a small number of them moved to 90%.


Which means they shouldn't be much of a change from live, where its a 5% miss chance, 5% dodge chance. So they will hit the same or better than they do now.
04/05/2013 05:08 PMPosted by Chorn
Most of the ones in that list have moved to 95% accuracy...and a small number of them moved to 90%.


Which means they shouldn't be much of a change from live, where its a 5% miss chance, 5% dodge chance. So they will hit the same or better than they do now.


If Simca's list is accurate and makes it live then there is literally no reason for them to change anything at all because only a handful of commonly used (non-multi hit) moves escaped the RNG changes.

RNG reduction was da April fools joke. Happy belated April fools everyone!

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