Windwalker pvp worst class ever?

Monk
Is it just me or is Windwalker PVP damage and survivability really lacking? I feel like I have issues killing most classes 1v1 in BG's. Anyone else having this issue?
Not at all. 1v1s especially. Even some 2v1s. Looks like you just need some more gear.
Search, Read. 1v1 is def not the problem. If you have problems with it.. you are the problem. The only mele that is on the same level in a 1v1 is probably Ret.

Maybe stop reforging away your Exp which is a #1 stat. You have spirit trinket on, and still have dreadful on. Ungemmed pants.. haste enchants.. You are all over the place. I'd hope anyone that put half an effort into setting up their toon would take you.

It's actually almost painful to see you have tyrincal weapons given how many other WW on this forum really want them but started late or haven't had the points. If you are in randoms, have those.. and can't kill something.. The problem isn't the class.
Have on the wrong trinket from my other set, a few pieces of dreadful should not make that big of a difference and yes im poor I also pvp with 3 other chars. As for the reforging thats what reforgelite recomended since I have not really seen a lot of people agree on the best way to reforge for monks in PVP. Ether way my full dreadful lock does a hell of a lot more damage. Sorry we can all be professional 1600 rated 2's monks yeesh, calm down.
WW isnt bad at all. It just takes alot of seat time to get comfy with and become effective. Learn from your losses. Im by no means a Glad or anything, but the more I play the better I get.

You have to set up your kills and work the chess match. There are definitely no "I WIN" buttons as a WW monk.
lol, sorry your right. I typed that at work walking out the door. I didn't elaborate and came across as a jerk. I didn't intend for that, sorry.

Yes, your lock is going to pump out way more dmg. In equal gear, there isn't a lot of competition at all. Monks are super gear dependent right now, so a few pieces really does matter. Not being gemmed and stacking resil is majorly cutting down on you staying in the fight. Dying at second 13 of a fight is pretty big.. making it to 15 is another Wave/Expel cool down. If you tie those in with a paralyze to stop dmg coming in.. going crit.. you can get quite a bit of health back. My expels crit for about 98k right now.

Generally speaking, no addon/website has a really good tool for pvp stats. First of all try to get your exp to like 5% to start. I wouldn't gem into it at all, but don't reforge it away. We need yellow abilities to hit to generate/spend chi. 5% is base what a caster is going to dodge on you.. and trust me.. missing a FoF on a priest is a downer :( Reqy uses that meta on his Orc. I've been intrested in it but haven't tried it. While your gear is a little low I would maybe switch that out. I think it might only excel if stacking it with orc racial, I'm not sure.

I understand there is no clear guide on stat priorities, it's a very common point of contention. I look at it like this, as do a big majority of the people having real sucess on monk right now. Crit increases your dmg at all times. In and out of Teb cooldowns. It also helps a bunch with self heals. Mastery is fun for watching big numbers, but passivly without stacking it you still sit at a 40% burst buff.. plus your chance to crit is still going to be higher in those. When stars a line and you get a Rising>FoF>Blackout>Blackout>Rising all to crit in one Teb cooldown, the damage is pretty ridiculous. Also remember.. most any competent player is going to CC you for at least half of that cooldown. Add that in with the ridiculous amounts of snares and up-time troubles already and it's pretty easy to see why mastery stacking may be a lot of situational fun, but overall it underperforms.

Haste is boo. It's a pve stat. They are able to get auto-attack chains proccing that makes there white dmg do a ton. It's kinda like old rogues in the way it makes up a large chunk of their dmg.

But yeah.. while we don't put out warlock/mage/ele numbers right now.. it's still got it's niche. We need work for sure. You really are most the way there though. The Tyrannical weapons make a dramatic difference because of the way our dmg is calculated. Keep at it, and I'm sure you'll have success.

Sorry I came across as a prick, again. Sometimes forums aren't the best way to convey intentions.

*Edit- Please check your in game mail when you get a chance.
I've been just plain wrecking since I came back to the game 2 weeks ago.
Is it just me or is Windwalker PVP damage and survivability really lacking? I feel like I have issues killing most classes 1v1 in BG's. Anyone else having this issue?


Its definitely you, not the class.
WW is viable for most people, but when you get to high-end arena it becomes lacking. Seems to be in the same position as Ret at the moment. But balance is always changing so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

As far as random BG's go, you definitely shouldn't he having any problems vs your average player.
If blizzard were to balance the game around WW monks the way they are right now it would be a perfect game
I appreciate the input and its okay, and thanks for the information I adjusted my gear and enchants save for the wrist ill fix it after i replace it with malv. It is possible that I am pressing buttons wrong, I have played rogue for a very long time so I guess maybe I am just used to having more of a dedicated burst other than FoF and Kitteh. I feel WW monks have a crap ton of control, but what I feel like is I am SUPER squish. I realize I am not fully geared but I don't think most people in BG's are ether.

Another big issue I had was in Arena's. If I got focused it almost always went down in this order.

1. DPS bursts me - I pop Touch of Karma

2. When Touch of Karma Falls off - I pop Fort Brew.

3. If I am still taking to much damage I will disarm them.

4. While still being focused typically by this point I am 30 to 20% I pop RoP and out of that FoF + Teleport where I typically have 3 healing spheres right on my teleport spot.

All the while using Expel Harm and Chi Wave, Detox if DK,Priest,Rogue, and Diffuse magic if casters. I typically stack Energizing brew with Healing Spheres, but typically seems like there is always a DK so I don't get away as much as I would like to. Thinking Maybe should start trying to heal up around 70% while fighting with spheres. But feels like it would not be as much pressure.

Also yes I do CC the other person while this is going on. I will have to look for optimal dps or burst setup's for monks. Feels like I cause more pressure via cc than damage. I have not had much chance to really try out my new weapons just bearly got them yesterday. So I can't fully be sure how much of a difference they make.

Note: I guess 1v1 I have not really gotten a big chance to fight 1v1 in BG's. I did get raped by a fire mage just before I posted this so thats probably what I was thinking about.

1. DPS bursts me - I pop Touch of Karma

2. When Touch of Karma Falls off - I pop Fort Brew.

3. If I am still taking to much damage I will disarm them.

4. While still being focused typically by this point I am 30 to 20% I pop RoP and out of that FoF + Teleport where I typically have 3 healing spheres right on my teleport spot.


It looks like you have the basics down fine. Just make sure you are using Expel Harm and Chi Wave on cooldown if you aren't at full health.

It shows your partner is a dest lock. WWs are excellent kiters between Tiger's Lust, Transcendence, FSK, Roll, Para, Disable etc. If they are focusing you hard and your defensives are down, just kite them and let your partner blow them up.

It's very hard to catch a good WW or escape from one. I know it feels unproductive to just run away and not DPS, but you'd be suprised how many people just get tunnel vision and chase your mindlessly while getting blown up. At least in the low ratings : P.
I think there is some slight overstatement going on here about how much of this is the player and how much of this is the spec. Versus other DPS specs, WW is very unforgiving, and pressing the wrong button in even a 1v1 will get you dead. You can put out the same damage as other DPS specs, but it takes a LOT more effort, practice, the correct teammates, lack of being focused without cooldowns, etc. Often the stars will not align, and you will have trouble staying on a target and putting out decent damage, or will get focused down in a stun.

That being said, it is fun if you stick with it. "Possible" is maybe a better description than "viable", but you can definitely wreck it given enough deaths to hunters and rolls that end up 10 yards behind a target. 90% of the windwalkers I see out there get $&@# on by everyone in RBGs/arenas/random battlegrounds, including me. Be the other 10% and surprise people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S8LJ2V69s8 just put this video together today by doing only a few BGs. Shows survivability and damage capability in random BGs and how I like to play (topped every dmge chart). I may be pretty geared compared to some of the people in video (tried to avoid massive outgear fights) but it still shows that ww is NOT a horrible spec particularly 1v1. Its the player.

Also lemme know what you guys think about it. First proper video ive made. Taking criticism
Ok, your arena question. I really don't like getting into the randoms thing because they are a horrible gauge. The gear gap is to large.

If you are getting opened on by melee dps, particularly double melee:

Opening with touch is not always a great idea. Other teams know you have it, and they want you to pop it when they are in control. They have full cool-downs, healers are topped off.. they will just hit you to make it go, then swap. Everyone is paying attention when the game starts.

I prefer to open against most melee comps, other then rogue, and some of the better warriors with RoP for a few reasons. It kills wrath style globals.. Ret/DK.. War/DK.. they can pump some serious dmg in the first few seconds. This shuts down their opener. Also.. other then ret, who has probably already popped wings, and every other wonder cooldown before he dismounted.. it kills resource generation. Dk's aren't getting runic, Wars aren't getting rage. It buys your team a few seconds to get properly set.

If you pop it.. chances are, they are going to try and swap.. Paralyze/disable/FOF both of them while stacked. You've already killed a good 10-15 seconds of their cool-downs. After that it's not so bad. Lust your healer if they need it, grapple anyone that gets close. I really try to save touch for a few different things. A lot of times when I get a kill lined up on healer, the ridiculous peel train starts. A lot of times, a DK can't not help but tunnel while he does it. He's got fancy runic power to spend, and he's spending it now. Same applies to a lot of mele/caster types. Touching an already in trouble healer while they are trying to peel/pressure you is fantastic. Once that dot is up, it works through LOS. If you get hit hard enough, it can be a pretty big boost.

Rogues I handle different. Generally on an opener I grapple and then FoF when it wears off. A big majority of rogues are going to vanish at this point. On the next opener I paralyze... and punch it out with it out with them. I play defensive because shadow-dance is coming. RoP's cool-down is faster then dances, so with proper management you can shut down every shadow dance they pull on the team. Depending on comp, and who the rogues on I like to use my touch to force a cloak while they are defensive, instead of them offensively avoiding peels/cc when they are bursting a my healer. A lot people on rogues have seizures against monks. Very easy class to keep self healed against.. unless they are really, really good at control and you make a mistake at the same time. Sometimes I like to trinket a kidney, and I'm shortly sitting in blind staring at my nimble brew. It's fantastic.
I think there is some slight overstatement going on here about how much of this is the player and how much of this is the spec. Versus other DPS specs, WW is very unforgiving, and pressing the wrong button in even a 1v1 will get you dead. You can put out the same damage as other DPS specs, but it takes a LOT more effort, practice, the correct teammates, lack of being focused without cooldowns, etc. Often the stars will not align, and you will have trouble staying on a target and putting out decent damage, or will get focused down in a stun.

That being said, it is fun if you stick with it. "Possible" is maybe a better description than "viable", but you can definitely wreck it given enough deaths to hunters and rolls that end up 10 yards behind a target. 90% of the windwalkers I see out there get $&@# on by everyone in RBGs/arenas/random battlegrounds, including me. Be the other 10% and surprise people.


Such a good post. It explains us quite well. A whole lot of activity, management and button pushing to do what others pull off with 2 or 3 abilities. Some find it rewarding, others despise it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S8LJ2V69s8 just put this video together today by doing only a few BGs. Shows survivability and damage capability in random BGs and how I like to play (topped every dmge chart). I may be pretty geared compared to some of the people in video (tried to avoid massive outgear fights) but it still shows that ww is NOT a horrible spec particularly 1v1. Its the player.

Also lemme know what you guys think about it. First proper video ive made. Taking criticism


I'd love to see one in rated or arena's outside of mastery procs? I'd really love to see a stream. A lot of those clips you touching into a TeB. It's awesome, and part of our class. I'd just like to see the output you put out without those. What is your % gain on a full 10 stack stacking mastery?

Also the trinket? Is it that much output on a 110 second cooldown for burst that it trumps the 45 second icd for pvp proc trinket, while losing the 5% dmg from pvp power and the 1.5% whatever resil?

I'm not criticizing, sincerely wondering. The editing and the video were good. I don't care myself for montages so I wont comment on the play itself.
I think the main problem is getting groups, disable hit box is sketch sometimes, nimble brew seems to screw up sometimes, etc
Yeah I'm working on getting some arena videos out i made that video for fun and practice. With a mastery buff from shaman (I play rsham/spriest/me in 3s) I end up with about 52% increase damage on 10 stack.
The trinket is amazing in my opinion. It procs at the start of the match and I instantly use engineering gloves, blood fury and tiger as it procs and just those without any TEB I've killed people solo. It helps put out amazing pressure at the start which is what my comp needs seeing as we both have a bit of ramp up time. The icd comes off pretty much as I get my 10stack up if not it's 10-20 seconds off which I can just tell my spriest for him to make sure he has his orbs.
In between the procs and CDs I don't do HUGE damage like I would with them obviously, however I chain cc (rop, snare, paralysis, stun, disarm, silence) and put out enough pressure to make them slowly drop and possibly even force defensives. But when my trinket is up and those cooldowns are ready to go, quite often I'll tell my priest and he will just fear and cc stuff and let me solo kill. I've seen a chain of 120k and 2 80k crits in 1700 rated 3s. Armoried them and they were at about 66% resil so it's definitely a bursty playstyle with control in between.

And yeah I only have windows live media player to edit so was kind of limited with that haha
Yes, WW is the worst class. You can pretend is has a high skill cap but in reality any class equal skill and equal gear is going to tear you to pieces.

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