LAMESTRIKE!

Mage
Along with the damage buffs our three old school AoEs are receiving I believe they should be altered in the following way.

Arcane Explosion:
Pretty much fine as is.

Blizzard:
Needs to be instant cast and channel itself like a D3 Wizard
OR
Channel on a target similar to Mind Sear

Flamestrike:
Blastwaved version should be the normal version.
Blizzard:
Needs to be instant cast and channel itself like a D3 Wizard


That's pretty much how Rain of Fire works for destro locks. They can just set it and let it do it's thing while they cast over spells. Could do something similar for frost mages, though it could make FoF proc management a bit more sporadic and random.
Mage 2 stronk nerff flamestrick
Has any1 mentioned that they are buffing normal AOE spells because we all realized that NT is the !@#$ and way better than any current AOE spells which was unintended in 5.2 changes? I didn't read this whole long thread of completely-pointless started by the uninformed original poster.

New changes will just result in new spell rotations and single casting nether tempest will be less effective than normal aoe spells. I predict a lot of FBomb LBomb talents picked up over Tempest.
04/14/2013 01:00 PMPosted by Rick
When in PVE are there ever a cloud of mobs on the tank AND the tank is motionless? Bats on Tortos? That's it, right? Maybe the ball lightning in p2/3 of Lei Shen? There are no other AoE fights where the classic AoEs are worth anything at all.


Horridon Adds
Tortos Bats
Heroic Mag nether adds
Ji-kun nests
Heroic durumu little eyes
Lei Shen Ball Lightning


You can probably toss in Living Sand on normal Council. Not sure about heroic.

Has any1 mentioned that they are buffing normal AOE spells because we all realized that NT is the !@#$ and way better than any current AOE spells which was unintended in 5.2 changes? I didn't read this whole long thread of completely-pointless started by the uninformed original poster.

New changes will just result in new spell rotations and single casting nether tempest will be less effective than normal aoe spells. I predict a lot of FBomb LBomb talents picked up over Tempest.


It looks like they've flipped the niches of Living Bomb and Nether Tempest in 5.3

Living Bomb is meant for single target, Nether Tempest is meant for 2-3 target situations.
versatility of the spell


Flamestrike is remarkably un-versatile tbh: it has a cd, cast time and does a large amount of its damage only if people continue to stand in it and blizz broke blast wave by merging it with flamestrike. It become mostly useless in pvp.

Unlimited cleave on LB also fails in pvp, because in most pvp (RBG clustfraks excluded) you don't have masses of targets. Generally for a fire mage in pvp, aoes focused on 3 targets is the most useful.

Having said that, I get masses more versatility and damage from glyphed cone of cold than I will ever get from flamestrike, even after the buff. And the fact that flamestrike is useless but has a 50% slow attached to it is insult to injury.

Even when I am farming old raids for xmogs, as a fire mage, I never use blizzard, no longer suits the spec at all imo. Cone of cold and current LB explosions own it in every way. Even frost nova damage is more important to me that blizzard. I use arcane explosion as a filler, coz fire doesn't have a spammable non-talented aoe of its own anymore (ie we used to have instant spammable flame strikes).

The way my mind works as a pvp fire mage is this: keep LB optimized for 3 targets, remove arcane explosion and blizzard from fire, give us back blast wave in some form, either give us back instant spammable flamestrike or make it into a single target execute (which would compensate for lack of aoe flexibility imo) and preferably, remove cone of cold from fire and let our fire aoe's be powerful enough to compensate.

A lot of the time in pvp, I don't even get a chance to cast fireball let alone flamestrike...cast times are useless in pvp and go unrewarded. For example, we proc hot streak it hits harder and is easy to use with f nova and deep freeze, but if we full-cast a pyro, it hits like a beanbag.

PvE guys will say "highest dpet, yay!" but in pvp, flamestrike is fantasy land.
looks like they've flipped the niches of Living Bomb and Nether Tempest in 5.3


Too much mindless flipping imo, there are seriously more important things for them to do.
04/16/2013 08:10 AMPosted by Curioxicity
looks like they've flipped the niches of Living Bomb and Nether Tempest in 5.3


Too much mindless flipping imo, there are seriously more important things for them to do.


I would agree, however, that they have flipped from NT being the best single-target bomb to now LB being best for ST, and possibly even up to 3 targets if close together.

Why . . . ?????????????????

Blizzard logic is like trying to understand a black dragon
Mage AoE sucks. Couple of multishots >>> any mage AoE
04/16/2013 08:17 AMPosted by Rentrenus


Too much mindless flipping imo, there are seriously more important things for them to do.


I would agree, however, that they have flipped from NT being the best single-target bomb to now LB being best for ST, and possibly even up to 3 targets if close together.

Why . . . ?????????????????

Blizzard logic is like trying to understand a black dragon


Its pretty obvious why. After the removal of Living Bomb cleave, NT was the best in 2-3 target situations for every Mage (it already was for nonfire) and best (by not a huge margin, but a big enough one) on single target as well. About the only time Living Bomb could shine was somethin like Tortos bats, but even then you'd probably get more mileage out of glyphed CoC+Frost Bomb.

Living Bomb needed a niche that wasnt makin it the Fire Mage bomb by addin back in its spread mechanic. The only niche not actually filled was single target damage, though it's probably goin to see lots of iteration to make sure the niche exists without completely blowin away the other 2 bombs in single target damage.
The only time I used Flame Strike was during Cataclysm when it had no cast time. I can't be bothered to cast it when there's better things to cast that end up doing more damage.
04/16/2013 08:07 AMPosted by Curioxicity
versatility of the spell


Flamestrike is remarkably un-versatile tbh: it has a cd, cast time and does a large amount of its damage only if people continue to stand in it and blizz broke blast wave by merging it with flamestrike. It become mostly useless in pvp


No it applies a dot, it does not matter where they move to after the flamestrike is applied.

When was it ever good for pvp? Stop trying to AoE players down.

The only time I used Flame Strike was during Cataclysm when it had no cast time. I can't be bothered to cast it when there's better things to cast that end up doing more damage.


Wrong, it does enough damage for AoE that it should be used on cooldown over our other AoE spells (blizzard, arcane explosion). The only better AoE's than flamestrike we have are frost bomb and frozen orb and I can't imagine you to be spamming those constantly.

Does nobody read posts before hand? All of this has been covered..
Horridon adds are neither stacked up nor motionless. Ji-kun is a good example, as are (presumably) the heroic encounters.


If you are moving them constantly you are doing it wrong. Your tank should be moving in segments, according to orb/trap/totem/poision spawns. There should be lots of motionless periods for the adds on horridon.
The only time I used Flame Strike was during Cataclysm when it had no cast time. I can't be bothered to cast it when there's better things to cast that end up doing more damage.


fire in cata u only use flamestrike ONCE and thats with the proc from blast wave to lit the ground on fire and to proc impact to spread your dots.. and use again when your blast wave is off CD..

u still LB cleave & use blizzard if you got impact & pyroblast is ticking on all targets.. arcane explosion was just as good, but blizzard u can do at far range..

the only reason why u wan to spam flamestrike is cause u want to fish for more impact cause ur luck sucks at blast wave + flamestrike proc.. cause iirc flamestrike spam COSTS a lot of mana, and evocation was on a 4min cd iirc for fire then 2mins now widout invocation..

even so now in mop, u cast flame strike is because it has a higher dpct if the aoe targets u get is like 3-5+ and its better to flamestrike, nt 2-3 targets, or hard cast pyro > IB dot spread > then blizzard because flamestrike has a longer cd then the entire channel time of blizzard..
As soon as it was no longer an insta cast with a chance 2 hit twice i stopped using it .
04/21/2013 08:40 AMPosted by Charmånder
u cast flame strike is because it has a higher dpct if the aoe targets u get is like 3-5+


Not in pvp, theres usually no time or no point. I have seen Hansol use it in 3v3 arena to slow all the targets when they were bunched at the sarcophagus in RoL. But that was for the slow, not the damage.

From what I heard NT is hands down superior to all the aoes in pve. But again, its only a little bit better than LB in pvp and has a QoL issue in arenas if you want things to stay ccd.

I hardly ever use lamestrike tbh, and in competitive, on the move pvp, I usually never see it cast. I use it once in a while myself, and 90% of the time I regret bothering.

At least when it was instant cast, in pvp I could lay a couple down if I was amongst a grp of targets and then proceed with the rest of my priorities. Although admittedly, back then we had so much aoe choice it was less noticeable, now that there isnt as much choice, having the old version of flame strike would be nice.

Having blast wave back as a nova would be very nice...even a reticule would be good. I would happily trade arcane explosion, blizzard, ice lance, frostfire bolt and the current lamestrike for some version of blastwave.

Fire Pvers already have NT spam, adding lamestrike must only contribute a pitiful increase, if any, to pve dps in 5.2.

For pvp, it takes too long to cast, requires too many targets to be effective, has a cd, and locks up a slow that would be genuinely useful as an instant cd. Even blast wave on a 1min or 2min cd, with a slow would be more useful than the current design.
I use flamestrike on occasion, I NEVER use blizzard.

That's cuz you're Fire.

If you were Frost and on heroic ToES (or even normal ToES), Blizzard > Flamestrike on Lei Shi's Hide phase as you can generate FoF with it while she's hidden.

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