Land ownership in the wake of SoO

Story Forum
Prev 1 3 4 5 6 Next
Nobody is getting any new land until we have a Cataclysm-type expansion that revises the old world yet again.

Will you please stop using that BS excuse of 'the Horde was necessary to save Azeroth'?


Considering the Keepers of Time, the Bronze Dragons of all people, sent you back in time to ensure the opening of the Dark Portal, I'd say that yes, they were necessary.
Only major changes I see would be an Alliance base outside of Orgrimmar to keep an eye on the new warchief.

At Tiragarde Keep would be a good place and would not interfere with the Horde too much. Also I bet Dalaran will settle down over where Theramore used to be and become a nuetral city again.
Nobody is getting any new land until we have a Cataclysm-type expansion that revises the old world yet again.


Thank you.

Most still want to see the post-cata land distro as a "OMG Blizz hates Alliance!" instead of the fact that it was balancing territory in a game...that requires balancing. Any gain must be followed by a loss to keep the balance.

Another reason I'm sick of the A v. H storyline we got going on here.
Only major changes I see would be an Alliance base outside of Orgrimmar to keep an eye on the new warchief.

At Tiragarde Keep would be a good place and would not interfere with the Horde too much. Also I bet Dalaran will settle down over where Theramore used to be and become a nuetral city again.


If it were Moira gone nuts, and we were laying siege to Ironforge, Caedmun wouldn't accept "We're just gonna drop an outpost to make sure you don't go bonkers in Dun Morough" very well.

Dwarves live a while. I bet there's still plenty who remember the last time the a horde built bases outside Ironforge.

I don't think maintaining any holdings in Durotar is a particularly good idea, or even necessary - parts of Ashenvale have easy observational access to Durotar, and druids make for amazing recon.

Plopping Dalaran where Thera was isn't a bad idea. The old neighborhood kinda went to hell anyway.
Nobody is getting any new land until we have a Cataclysm-type expansion that revises the old world yet again.


Thank you.

Most still want to see the post-cata land distro as a "OMG Blizz hates Alliance!" instead of the fact that it was balancing territory in a game...that requires balancing. Any gain must be followed by a loss to keep the balance.

Another reason I'm sick of the A v. H storyline we got going on here.


They could have Horde quests in Elwynn Forest with phasing and no Alliance would ever even notice.
All that was tech they had, and that they used, in Cata.

Balancing was the reason, but it was hardly a necessity. More likely, it was a design choice to punctuate the overall narrative of territories changing hands (and change in general). If you have a red car, chances are you just want a red car... rather than reasoning "oy, whatz wit you lot? Ain't you heard? Red ones go fasta."


Considering the Keepers of Time, the Bronze Dragons of all people, sent you back in time to ensure the opening of the Dark Portal, I'd say that yes, they were necessary.


Or they were just preserving their own time stream and their own lives.

In fact, weren't we shown timestreams, like the one where Blackmoore wasn't a drunk, where the Legion was either absent or their schemes pre-empted before they could return to Azeroth? Without a New Horde forming at all?

I'm more inclined to believe in the "**!@%!## dragons" theory.
Especially since basically all dragons seem to be dicks! Even the "we represent life" reds.
It also fits in nicely with how basically all the world's neutrals only care about their little corner of the planet and, well, everyone else can sink or swim.
The whole point of Cataclysm was to even out zone distribution (or, a major point, anyway). Right now, zones are more or less evenly distributed. Blizzard aren't going to undo that or they'll just have to fix it again a few years hence. So if you're hoping for major changes, don't count on it. I could see them doing something with part of Arathi (but they still will leave it as a contested leveling area) or Dustwallow, since neither got much of an update.

Lordaeron is Forsaken for good. Azshara isn't going anywhere.
Any land changes does not neccesarily have to reflected in the "cata world". We could simply have a few scenarios showing X base being destroyed or something. Heck, that was what I was hoping the scenario would at least try to do.
04/19/2013 12:38 PMPosted by Emmberr
If the Forsaken WANTED Northrend they could have taken it.


Actually they couldn't have. The Forsaken are really weak and had no chance of contesting the numerous hostile forces in the area.

The reason the Forsaken want northern Lordaeran is because it's as much their home as it is the Alliance's. They've lived, fought, died, and fought again for the land. You don't just pack up and leave after that kind of sacrafice.


They want it because it's an ideal base for them to project power into human territories from, both giving them easy access to humans they can use as fodder for their war machine and to make it easier for them to fulfill their goal of wiping out humanity, two things that would be substantially harder to do from Northrend.

It has nothing to do with "Oh, they lived and died there! It's sentimental value!" Sentimental value is a positive emotion that the Forsaken don't have access to.

If they actually want to simply unlive in peace and not bother anyone they should have zero problem with Northrend.
....So I'm not gonna get into a 'Forsaken are x' argument and derail this whole thread...

But I WILL offer my suggestions as to Land Ownership.

No one should get anything.

Now now, dont worry I know from a lore perspective at least some concessions should be made, but this is coming from the logical, gameplay perspective.

Blizz are not going to redo the world so soon after cata, it is too much work, not to mention all the zones the Horde got were to balance the zone inconsistencies that have been Alliance favored since Vanilla.

We wont see ANY changes in game.

But we will probably see them in books or comics or whatever. So here's my 'if this goes down in a book' idea.

Now this whole war flared not because of Wrathgate (thought that was a big part) or pride or whatever, but because the Horde settled in a freaking DESERT.
The only source of lumber for them was Ashenvale, and a trade agreement was in effect with the Night Elves until Wrathgate when they withdrew any permission for the Horde to log the forest.

Now as you sharper readers may have guessed, a settled civilization needs easy access to lumber to thrive. Logging it on the other side of the continent and shipping it? not efficient enough. Ashenvale was the only place they could get what they needed and for a time they were getting it through legal, non hostile trades. Then the Night Elves screwed it up. Garrosh saw his people living in an inhospitable desert and sought to change that (thats why I admired him until Mists of Pandaria)

So here's what needs to happen to ensure that the Horde doesnt rampage for resources again.

1- Horde gets access to much needed resources in Ashenvale.
Let them log, hell let the CC watch over them and rejuvenate the forest to make it sustainable. There is no way you can get around this, if you want the Horde to be peaceful you need to let them be able to create a civilization without having to smash and loot the resources it needs.

2- Take away powers of the Warchief.
Now I'm not talking about ALL powers, he would still be the big cheese. But declarations of war and such need to be approved by the other racial leaders. Garrosh has proved we cant have an idiot with the powers of a dictator.

3- Don't be idiots
This goes for both sides. Dont be morons when it comes to things like inter faction politics.

4- The Forsaken stop blighting towns and pull back behind that big !@# wall
This may be the hardest part (besides the idiot part) but stop the Forsaken from using the blight on innocent towns and tell them to pull back behind the wall. It is a perfect boundary, defensible for both factions (depending on who gets to man the wall) and lets resettlement of Strom proceed without Forsaken interference. As for their 'forcibly rezzing corpses into undead'? let them do it.

They're corpses, no use to anyone unless you like to eat or make love to corpses. Any corpse on the Forsaken side of the wall is allowed to be revived but if that Forsaken does not want to join them they are allowed to leave and go off and kill themselves or something.

Those are my four suggestions for how to sort out land ownership and to stop the Horde from pulling a Garrosh again.

3- Don't be idiots
This goes for both sides. Dont be morons when it comes to things like inter faction politics.


But...then how would we explain PVP?
But...then how would we explain PVP?


!@#$ your PvP.

Do we need explanations for bashing each other's face in with swords? Do we need explanations for why a handful of people constantly bash through armies of evil and behead the bad guy before stealing his pants?

PvP players can go suck a lemon
1- Horde gets access to much needed resources in Ashenvale.
Let them log, hell let the CC watch over them and rejuvenate the forest to make it sustainable. There is no way you can get around this, if you want the Horde to be peaceful you need to let them be able to create a civilization without having to smash and loot the resources it needs.


It is not up to the Night Elves to babysit the Horde and give them whatever they desire. The Horde need lumber, they do not need Ashenvale, lumber is available elsewhere. Trade with other nations, trade with the NEs, shipping lumber from other parts of the world, moving out of the desert, increasing farming of all kinds in Durotar and Azshara.

They have an abundance of options to pursue.
4- The Forsaken stop blighting towns and pull back behind that big !@# wall
This may be the hardest part (besides the idiot part) but stop the Forsaken from using the blight on innocent towns and tell them to pull back behind the wall. It is a perfect boundary, defensible for both factions (depending on who gets to man the wall) and lets resettlement of Strom proceed without Forsaken interference. As for their 'forcibly rezzing corpses into undead'? let them do it.

They're corpses, no use to anyone unless you like to eat or make love to corpses. Any corpse on the Forsaken side of the wall is allowed to be revived but if that Forsaken does not want to join them they are allowed to leave and go off and kill themselves or something.


Absolutely unacceptable, and any Alliance negotiator who was engaged in this negotiation would be well within their rights to stand up and leave as soon as this was suggested. It gives the Forsaken everything that they've conquered thus far and forces NO concessions from them aside from a "promise" to not expand any further. You're even letting them continue to desecrate the bodies of Alliance dead.

Why do Horde players keep pushing this crap thinking that it's an acceptable solution for the Alliance with regards to the Forsaken and Lordaeron? It's like giving the Germans North Africa, Poland, and France on the promise that they won't try to expand anymore, with the added bonus of letting them continue to murder Jews.
It's like giving the Germans North Africa, Poland, and France on the promise that they won't try to expand anymore, with the added bonus of letting them to continue to murder Jews.


Thread's over. Everyone go home.
Why do Horde players keep pushing this crap thinking that it's an acceptable solution for the Alliance with regards to the Forsaken and Lordaeron? It's like giving the Germans North Africa, Poland, and France on the promise that they won't try to expand anymore, with the added bonus of letting them continue to murder Jews.


:/
The only source of lumber for them was Ashenvale, and a trade agreement was in effect with the Night Elves until Wrathgate when they withdrew any permission for the Horde to log the forest.

Now as you sharper readers may have guessed, a settled civilization needs easy access to lumber to thrive. Logging it on the other side of the continent and shipping it? not efficient enough. Ashenvale was the only place they could get what they needed and for a time they were getting it through legal, non hostile trades. Then the Night Elves screwed it up. Garrosh saw his people living in an inhospitable desert and sought to change that (thats why I admired him until Mists of Pandaria)

So here's what needs to happen to ensure that the Horde doesnt rampage for resources again.

1- Horde gets access to much needed resources in Ashenvale.
Let them log, hell let the CC watch over them and rejuvenate the forest to make it sustainable. There is no way you can get around this, if you want the Horde to be peaceful you need to let them be able to create a civilization without having to smash and loot the resources it needs.


Utter BS. Ashenvale just happens to be the closest source of lumber. It's not the only source by any means. The Night elves should not be forced to share anything of their homeland with the orcs. That's what you are having them do. Basically paying tribute to the orcs to pacify them. Which is -wrong-. The orcs CAN get lumber from other regions. From the forsaken in Silverpine/Hillsbrad. From the Stonetalons,s from the parts of the Grizzly Hills the Horde lands, From the Blood elves and even from Venture Co in Stranglethorn. Grom'gol could become a logging port. The orcs do not need to get any lumber from Ashenvale at all. Your proposal is awful. It punishes the Kaldorei and rewards the orcs, it makes war a viable economic tactic.

If the Horde wants to be a peaceful civilization it needs to stop antagonizing and being so bloody aggressive to their neighbors. and if a neighbor doesn't want to trade with the Horde, they will let it do so and not push the issue. It's the Horde that needs to control itself or be disbanded and turned into something civilized.

As for their 'forcibly rezzing corpses into undead'? let them do it.

They're corpses, no use to anyone unless you like to eat or make love to corpses. Any corpse on the Forsaken side of the wall is allowed to be revived but if that Forsaken does not want to join them they are allowed to leave and go off and kill themselves or something.


This is also wrong too. Everyone, Alliance and Horde, sees it as nothing more than a desecration of the dead. It should be forbidden for the forsaken to do and one of the terms of the cease fire/surrender. To raise the dead the forsaken have killed any living being would and should be appalled by. Yes the forsaken need to do that to 'procreate', but as a race they should die out eventually because they are not a part of nature. Their existence is only sustained by the active use of shadow/dark magics. Break that bond and they are nothing more than a limp corpse.
The war is going to end like the war of 1812 did no territory loss or gain just a peace treaty the contested land will still be contested.


This is where I am putting my money.
The War of 1812 ended with any conquests being returned to whoever had them prior to the war, meaning the Horde would give up Hillsbrad, half of Silverpine, Andorhal, Dustwallow, Stonetalon, Ashenvale, and Azshara.
Let me clarify.

04/20/2013 08:30 AMPosted by Brukk
no territory loss or gain just a peace treaty the contested land will still be contested.


This is where I am putting my money.

Should not have quoted the entire sentence.
If we didn't get Southshore, Andorhol, Swamp of Sorrows, Southern Barrens, Stonetalon, or any of the other "victories"... what makes you think we'll get anything now?

The Alliance is a plot device for the Horde; I thought everyone knew this now.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum