Combat Rogue PvP Suggestion

Since MoP I tried all 3 specs of Rogues, and Combat seems to be my favorite out of them all. Yeah it is harder to paly than Sub, but I enjoy finding ways to be TOP damage in BG's and affecting in both RBGs and Arenas. After playing this spec I see why they call it a non-pvp spec.

So in reading the spec it says it can stand"toe-to-toe" against its foes. So why not do that for Combat Rogue? Something that wont heavilly affect PvE scenarios. Give them Sparring like Monks or WAY higher Parry chance or a Damage Reduction when they use Recuperate. I see many Combat Rogues out there in PvP Battlegrounds and most go down too quickly. Their damage is alright, just no burst to really make an impact fast enough. Dont buff us, just make us harder to kill.

Possible without ruining PvE? I think so. Thank you for reading this. Hope a dev sees this or something.
They used to have talents that made them quite durable.

Riposte, talents for higher dodge/parry, counterattack on dodges, improved recuperate, lower CD on evasion, you name it, they had it. At one point in time, a rogue that split between Sub and Combat could rather efficiently tank with all the good Combat-tank stuffs and Ghostly Strike, to the point where if they had a taunt they really could have been a tank.

It really does need something if it's to retain the feel it once had as being the most durable of all 3 specs.
And why not have Blizzard bring it back? They gave Locks ability to tank, classes that can off-heal use it just as good as their weapons, and classes that purely DPS (Warriors, Hunters, Mages) have amazing survivability! They could simply allow Combat Rogues the survivability they had back pre MOP without any detrimental changes, wouldn't you agree?
Because no one played Combat in PvP where the bonuses could have been worthwhile (mostly because it wasn't possible to burst with the power as Sub and get the tankiness of Combat without losing part of the power of one or the other), and they were filler to reach important DPS talents in PvE.

And Blizz took that as no one wanted the bonuses.

So they dropped them all.
I have seen more Combat Rogues in PvP Lately, every time I swap to Sub to practice I see many Combat's out there, makes me go back Combat and Wreck It to the top of the charts. Just earlier did that myself. Me, and I'm sure everyone else, that plays Combat Rogue wants them back.

So Blizz, if you hear me, bring it back! BRING THE SURVIVABILITY BACK!
I remember playing on another rogue char in Cata for a small time as combat. It's damage was quite frankly pitiful but the lockdown it had with 6 second gouges, silence on kicks, 8.7 second kidney shots, + a DT that interrupted even with 1 combo point made for an amazing toolkit to lockdown healers with. It also had an undispellable slow baked into its attacks that was reliable. I felt like I had prot warrior level disruption with more damage but slightly less survivability.

Then MoP comes and all that survivability and disruption are removed but we are given better damage in return. Our 2 burst cooldowns went from ok to flat out amazing (Killing spree buffed + shadow blades enhancing adrenaline rush). Now if you liked to kill stuff on your own, then MoP's combat spec is great.

I do feel it makes it play almost entirely like a Sub Rogue with slightly better burst cooldowns but less utility. One could say they essentially took away Combat's identity with MoP and homogenized the Rogue class as a whole. Combat was probably the largest victim in that homogenization because it had traits more fitting of a "swashbuckler" than an "assassin" compared to the other 2 specs and thus lost most of its identity when it was forced into the assassin archetype that Blizzard views the rogue class as.
I would guess you are with me on bringing the identity back? ^-^

Hope so. I'm hoping the spec regains its "toe-to-toe" feel. I would love for it to come back. The way you put it, how the class was homogenized, is spot on and makes sense.

I did notice that Sub has more utility than Combat. Using Evasion Talent is harder on Combat. It gets detrimental sometimes in competitive PvP.
I want Cata Combat rogue back. Throw Spec, long free Gouge, RvS Glyphed Kidney, root-break Sprint, dmg-reduce Recup, blanket Kick, and Blade Twisting, were sooo much fun. You were hell for a healer, tanky, and nearly un-peelable. Now if you can somehow manage to live long enough to get to red insight then you've got a good shot at killing somebody in a Spree, if you can also isolate them from all the damn pets and other players constantly there.
I miss Blade Twisting.....coolest ability ever imo.
And this is my example of why they should bring it all back! The responses my post is getting!

See this Blizz? Bring all this back pls!
I fail to see what makes ASN or SUB rogue anymore of a survivor over COMBAT. The real issue is that we are exposed a lot longer with relatively pathetic sustained damage. And damage that is the problem. Specifically, lack of any kind of armor penetration, which directly affects the damage we do. Right now as it stands Expose Armor is one of the most pathetic abilities in rogue's arsenal. Does Blizzard realistically expect me to waste 2/3 of my energy and 3 GCDs to reduce someone's armor by 12%? Which with resilience equates to about 1% additional damage on plate. Even if you choose to lose a major glyph slot, that ability is still rubbish. The main superiority of both SUB and ASN specs to combat is that they negate most of the armor with attacks such as bleeds, poisons or debuffs.

The real solution here is to make Expose Armor give combat rogues additional 21% armor penetration through some spec passive. So in total that ability should reduce enemy's armor by a third. Then it will be worth using at least.

Also, while I'm suggesting some changes, here a couple of more:

Smoke Bomb should really be on about 1.5 min CD. 3 mins is way too long for what it does.
AOE stealth really should be 2 mins CD max. How is that ability that powerful to justify 5 min cd? Better yet, I propose that ability has no CD at all but applies 2 min debuff on anyone recently affected by it which makes them ineligible for re-application. Also, when used on a flag carrier does not stealth them but wipes out the tracking of them on the map.

Lastly, no one is using Nightstalker talent because face it, other 2 you can pick from at 15 are much, much better. The easy fix to is to simply make ALL stealth abilities be 25% more effective (garrote silence duration/damage, ambush damage, cheap shot stun duration). Extra 1 sec silence/stun on openers will make it worth a lot more.
Unfortunately with the state of Combat's burst potential, there is no way we can get all that back without giving some damage up. And of course they won't nerf the damage because of PvE so its not likely to happen :(

Only thing I see happening is a possible survival boost for Combat rogues, but just a slight one. Nothing along the lines of what we had in Cata of +6% parry or +9% dodge, -20% attack speed with riposte, or the mail level armor combat could get. Though I wouldn't mind evasion being tacked on to restless blades either. Evasion is such a !@#$ty defensive cooldown anyway I often just use it to protect my amazing Adren Rush/Shadow blades from disarms, kidneys, scatter shots, gouges, etc so at least having to reduced along with Adrenaline rush would be nice XD
It wouldn't be too hard. Give Blade Flurry an additional 30% or so parry while active. Add in an effect to Bandit's Guile which gives us a % chance to strike with a main hand white hit whenever we dodge. This chance increases depending on the level of insight.

The real solution here is to make Expose Armor give combat rogues additional 21% armor penetration through some spec passive. So in total that ability should reduce enemy's armor by a third. Then it will be worth using at least.

The real solution is to get rid of Expose Armor as a finisher and make it either a CP builder or just roll that effect into Revealing Strike.
The real solution is to get rid of Expose Armor as a finisher and make it either a CP builder or just roll that effect into Revealing Strike.

Its not a finisher anymore, its a combo point builder, but it deals no damage and only reduces 12% of Armor after 3 applications, that's too many GCD so spend for a combat rogue.
Combat is currently a shell of its former self and not really popular in PVE or PVP which saddens me a bit.

That is true, with the PvE LFRs that I did run on my warlock I never see Combat Rogues reach even 70k dps. If this is true then Combat Might get a Damage Buffs. This is a good thing, the outlook to make this class competitive means there SHOULD be changes, and Blizz will hopefully see this as well.
Just got done watching your arena video about killing spree, gotta say I have been playing combat since vanillia, and as a hardcore rogue I always stuck with it, but I do agree with you. Why do we not have a bit more survivability? I honestly wouldn't mind that, it says combat is a swash buckler spec, to me it seems the most fragile lol.
Personally, Dalarann you're the reason im combat and I have had multiple accounts since BC all rogues but! Rogues that play combat need to be tankier the spec even says "A swash buckler that stands toe to toe" that means they should take as much damage as sub or assassination :/

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