Mage is garbage in pvp

@Hakuren -

"We are meant to be at the low spectrum as far as survivability."

Why? They gave everyone our damage. Almost class in the game is capable of mage damage, and the ones that aren't are built to survive until they get the slow kill. Meanwhile we aren't capable of delivering our payload because we're cheesed up the whole fight, or our opponent is self-healing and using overpowered defense abilities to simply negate our burst.

This is what happens when the development team just applies bandaids to everything instead of overhauling things.

It's more cost-effective to apply bandaids, after all. And balancing PVP with keeping PVE in mind is a nightmare as you can see throughout most of WoW's lifetime.

Also, they dislike burst. Almost all burst-type abilities have been nerfed into the ground. I can think of one lovely incident in Vanilla...

Anyways, it's not really a problem that is easily fixed. I think they will not bother looking at it in a serious manner since they seem to be so disassociated with the playerbase.

Look at something like PVE arcane from 5.1 to 5.2. The playerbase and dev. team apparently play two different games from what we saw in the buffs/nerfs. They have access to plenty of data akin to WoL but they don't act. I assume this will be the attitude they pursue for the rest of WoW's lifetime. Makes sense when all you have to do is maintain a very old game and still rake in a ton of money.
Before you complain about mages, go and play a frost/unholy dk. They're fine in groups but small scale pvp they have just about the worst mobility and weakest cc out of most if not all classes and death strike has been cheesed so much it's hardly worth it anymore.

Btw, I do also play a mage competitively and I've found it easier to play but a bit more boring also
While true, bringing up DK in this discussion isn't really relevant.

Yes, DK PVP is not too hot right now. Both mages and DKs could use a tweak.

It's actually the opposite: DKs want survivability or cooldowns like other classes while mages seem to want to either do more damage on demand (since we trade our defense for our offense) or more defense like DKs...and honestly frost mages don't need much more defense except protection from dispel.
Could use some kind of passive healing, perhaps from WE like it was for awhile in WOTLK.
Mages are defiantly no where near the bottom of the charts. If your talking about dueling or random battlegrounds, yea maybe you seem a bit weak compared to hunters or DKs. But in higher pvp mages have some of the best CC and damage. Looking at your character, you have no pvp experience unless it was it was in vanilla or BC. I would like a more detailed explanation on why you think one of the top pvp classes is horrible rather then
Not even worth playing anymore... have fun.
no you just suck

Could use some kind of passive healing, perhaps from WE like it was for awhile in WOTLK.

No mages do not need more self-healing. We are not hybrids and we already have plenty of defensive tools. The issue is always going to be dispel/purge.

Lately I've been dabbling in a bit of PVP after a long, long break from it and I'd say that I tear faces off in just random BGs but if I'm focused, I usually end up dead. When I end up dead, it's generally because someone was purging my crap off me so I had nothing but cold snap/ice block and blazing speed/blink to get away.

I'd say make invisibility instant cast baseline and differentiate greater and normal with how it is now. It's really annoying that one of our hard counters can also follow us when we actually get invisibility to work.
lol PvE'r saying one of the hardest hitting classes is bad at pvp
lol PvE'r saying one of the hardest hitting classes is bad at pvp
Have to agree with you.. Not very happy with the state of mage's right now.. Played a little an noticed the difference an not worth gearing up man.. Still love the game just won't be pvp(ing) with my mage anymore..
Disagree, pretty much every class is anti-mage now... we are the anti-nothing.

We still cream rogues, most healers if played right (read a fair amount of work), warlocks are alot easier now, ele shamans are tasty (enh still hurt), monks of all kinds are fairly easy but windwalker you can't be lazy with, druids of all kinds.

We are by no means weak at all. You just have to work for it again.
Mage's are a tier 1 pvp class (dk's are as well) and if you're experience varies it's likely due to a lack of gear or skill.
Garbage is a strong word.

I think theyve made frost too good in pvp compared to arcane and fire...thats the main problem, they surely purposely did it tho, so what do we do?
Hm I took him to mean garbage as in not fun to play, forced into one spec, 1 trick pony, etc.

Apparently he meant garbage as far as damage is concerned (after reading his responses).

As most of the other posters have said, this is just flat out wrong. I don't think I've seen any other class that can burst people down quite as effectively as mage while still retaining some defense.

How we deliver the burst is very monotonous but that's not a topic for this discussion, apparently. :)
04/28/2013 01:37 AMPosted by Hakuren
I don't think I've seen any other class that can burst people down quite as effectively as mage while still retaining some defense.

I also play destro and imo, destro is a well rounded spec where fire is confused and clunky. Destro has a massive execute which on its own is almost worth switching from a fire mage for.

Then in addition to that, the resource system is tweaked very nicely on the destro and they have trimmed away useless abilities and given destro focus.

Fire on the other hand still carries alot of deadweight like blizzard/flame strike/arcane explosion/ice lance/mana gems/frost fire bolt. It relies on frost spells and glyphs to do well in pvp. The spec specific bomb is technically unfavoured. There is no level 90 talent that meshes well with fire. Most of the other talents that are good arent fire.

Fire is a very mobile spec with blink and frost nova and scorch on the move. However, our resource system is silly. We burn all of our mana spellstealing, cant convert our mana into dps resources with our aoe, we dont have a dps resource...just mana.

The only saving grace we have, is to try very hard to slowly set up a 4 + pyro combo that requires care and skill. Some fire mages do it really well, others (like me) tend to not bother so much coz its time consuming and difficult.

Cumbersome, slow setup time, no execute, poor arrangement for our resource; balanced by consistent, highish damage and good mobility and escapes.

Still not as good as destro tho...which is like a twin spec to fire.
Mages aren't bad, but OP speaks some truth here. Quite frankly, we have it a lot easier against a healing class than many other classes because of our burst. However, against a hunter with cds up, or a Lock, we are in trouble (I PvP with all three. If you beat a lock or a hunter on a mage, then the person you beat was undergeared or poorly played. I am not a great or, maybe, good pvper, so I know this because, with my hunter and Lock, I consistently destroy better players playing mages).

Also, we are a kiting class, perhaps the ultimate kiting class, in a game where kiting is now almost impossible against most melee classes. Rogues have the fewest options, if you survive the opener, but then ST is a killer when coupled with paralytic poison.

A good rogue will beat us almost all of the time, unless you get lucky and pop him out of stealth before the opener.

I generally don't have issues with ret pallies, unless they get their forever stun on you and then you are just done. They stun should break on damage or at least its duration should be reduced.
Mages are very strong, but hunters and rogues are abundant right now which happens to be very rough on mages. Once those two classes start getting nerfed a little (if they do) mages will be seen as OP again.

I read a few post... Mages should have no problems with ret pallys...ever... And to beat a monk it's going to require you silencing him when you root him to keep him from breaking it.

I would like to see mages other specs brought into play as I've played all 3 to over 2k in 2s and 3s I really miss arcane some times.

In lich king arcane was my favorite spec I hit 2k in 2s and 2150 in 3s.
Cata what a joke at the start of cata I ran 2k as frost and quit rapidly
I picked up fire at the end of cata
The begining of mist I ran 2k as fire in 2s and 3s on multiple teams with multiple comps.

They've successfully nerfed arcane to not being viable at all, and they've made fire less powerful, and much harder than frost.
Frost is boring, repetitive, and needs to be reworked as EVERYONE has roots now so EVERYONE has root/snare breaking abilities.
Agree with op. Frost bomb should do more damage(approximately 4-6 times more, I did the math), auto crit, usable on allies (friendly fire is fun), and a reduced cooldown.

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