Superheroes & villains

Wyrmrest Accord
For the record, when I say I love the Joker, I mean Mark Hamill's.
Preface: I am really not into comics at all. I hate, hate, hate most comics because they almost always end up really dumb. I can't think of a single comic series this hasn't happened to, from Batman to AvP to The Walking Dead.

Ever read Kabuki by David Mack? I'm always surprised how many people have never heard of it. It's one of the few series I've ever seen that gets more genius as it goes. Starting in black and white and moving into brilliantly painted watercolor and mixed media as it gets deeper and deeper into our hero's psyche. Alchemy, the last book at the moment, I find incredibly inspirational and it remains one of my favorite graphic novels of all time.

So for non-traditional? Kabuki is my favorite "super" hero. She's more like Batman in that way, she's not magic or anything just really badass. For more traditional comics, gotta love Batman. He also has the best villains. Joker, Harley, Ivy...

My first favorite comic book villain, though, was Winnowill from ElfQuest. In have a print of her and Tyldak signed and hanging over my desk. Although I do feel like ElfQuest suffered the going off the rails thing a lot of comics do eventually, around Shards I think, but it still has a special place in my heart and mind as it was a cover with Winnowill on it that got me to pick up my first comic as a kid and become interested in being an artist myself.
hi im voting for samurai jack so that viezra doesn't tase me thanks in advance

Samurai Jack is always the right answer.
For the record, when I say I love the Joker, I mean Mark Hamill's.

This is the "correct" answer. Don't get me wrong, I loved Heath Ledger's performance in The Dark Knight, but as far a Joker portrayals no one holds a candle to Mark Hamil. He was just absolutely perfect as the Joker.

As for my favorite villain, I'm gonna have to go with Boba Fett. I mean, he is probably the most useless villain ever (as far as the movies go anyway) but god damn he makes uselessness look so cool.

My favorite here would have to be the Hulk because he gets all big and mean and smashes things and it is awesome. Spiderman's a close second.
Well, I created the thread with comics and comic-related media in mind, so Boba Fett would only count if you were talking about the Star Wars comics, but there's no reason to limit anything, so if anyone was thinking of heroes or villains OUTSIDE of comics, well, go crazy.
04/25/2013 10:31 AMPosted by Seaclya
hi im voting for samurai jack so that viezra doesn't tase me thanks in advance

Samurai Jack is always the right answer.

Am I the only one who thinks the Sha is really Aku?
I.... I don't like Batman.

I know, I know. I'm probably like, the only one.

I just don't dig the characters who are consumed by angst. I can't help but think of that PvP comic-

My opinion doesn't quite go that far (for one, alcoholism and sleeping with a ton of random people who you treat not very respectably isn't a sign of mental health or enjoying oneself), but yeah. Plus, the whole dark vibe never called to me. So, minus the appeal of the dark vibe of Batman, plus my judgy side going "WHY DON'T YOU JUST GO TO THERAPY ALREADY, MY GOD. YOU ARE RICH ENOUGH TO AFFORD IT." I just can't dig the Batman.

I do kinda dig the X-Men, but I freely admit it's because I am a total sucker for the Outcast Monster vibe (for gold's sakes, I'm Horde), because I don't even like the vast majority of it's members. Wolverine is waaaaay too hyped up, and I think I would like him better if he wasn't. My favorite is Nightcrawler.

My other favorite hero would be Iron Man. Mostly because, at least with the way RDJ portrays him, he seems to have eerily similar anxiety about interacting with people and tendency to forget things about people like me. Plus, he's a brilliant Smart Alec who nails the Jerk With A Heart Of Gold trope pitch perfectly. Which I have a weakness for. Plus, his struggles are all in the now. Yeah, he's still dealing with his parent issues, but his main drive is to fix what he messed up with the weapons. To do the best he can because deep down he believes practically everyone is better than him and deserves to live more (crippling insecurity ahoy!). And I could go on and on dissecting him which is funny because I think I have only read one and a half comics of his and the rest of my info comes from wikis and the movies and cartoons.

Honorable mentions in the Hero Category: Deadpool, because breaking the 4th wall is awesome. Spiderman, because those quips man.

For Villains? Oooh, tough. I actually like some incarnations of Lex Luthor. The ones that have him less stupid and more being a unethical business man who, for the most part, has good goals but has no stock in the ideology "The ends never justify the means." I think Villains like that are pretty compelling. Really, when it comes to Villainy I adore the Chessmasters. Snuffit in some ways is based on Xanatos from Gargoyles, and even though he isn't a complete Villain and only appeared in one Comic, I'm going to throw him up here as well.

If there is a comic universe where it is two chessmasters, a hero and villain, playing games with each other and trying to one up the other I would buy so many issues unless it completely sucked.

But yeah, in general Comics are... they are like Soap Operas. Except with worse continuity problems.

I tried getting into the DC reboot with the first Superman issue, because I figured they would give their best with him. By the end I was pissed that apparently they only rebooted half the continuity, which honestly just makes it more difficult for new people to get into it since you have no idea what to research to catch up, how even on the first issue I had to go read about 3 other new ones in order to figure out half of what was going on with all the freakin' teasers and 'If you want to know what this is, go to x comic!', and head-desking over how Lois Lane looked like she had just rolled out of bed for her job as a high power news person.

I feel like Superman COULD be done well- if they were ever willing to grow and change their characters in meaningful ways without it reverting back. I liked the way Smallville handled some of it in their early seasons before I got bored by shoddy writing and wandered off. But with Superman, you have got to stress and pay attention to his average, human side to anchor him so he isn't just this towering behemouth flying way above everyone else, too good for this world.

But yeah, comics in general need to let themselves grow and change their stories. I feel like that's their biggest weakness right now (outside of blatant sexism and still a good bit of racism, that is.)
While I can't really supply an ultimate 'favourite villain', I do feel compelled to add Mithos from ToS, in to this thread.

I dig a villain whose ends I can agree with but whose means are all wrong.
I'm...Not actually that into superhero comics in the grand scheme of things, I must admit. But from what I HAVE read? Any of the Birds of Prey. Deadpool. Batman. Wolverine. Nightcrawler. Spiderwoman.

And I have an insane amount of fangirl squee for the Joker.

I'm sure there's others I like, but I didn't sleep enough to remember them and all the comic characters other than that that I love aren't from superhero comics.
I watched a little bit of Smallville. Lex in that was pretty cool. The intro eventually started turning my brain inside-out, though, and stuff got really stupid eventually.
I enjoyed the first several seasons of Smallville, then it started getting a little 'wat' for me.

I especially enjoyed watching Clark Kent trying to wrap himself around gaining new abilities and learning who he is while also trying to be a normal teenage boy.

And Lionel Luthor. There were some parts of that series I loved just because Lionel Luthor. <_<
Snuffit mentioned comics being like a soap opera but Smallville literally was a soap opera with superpowers.

I hate Superman. I really, really hate Superman. He is my most despised character in all of pop culture. "Grey area" heroes and moral choices get sort of campy and boring at times, but Superman is the opposite: with the exception of a few certain offshoots/crossovers/side-comics, Superman is so good it hurts. It's laughable. You know how cheesy the original Batman was, with his 50's-style code of ethics and such? Superman is like that, but has never been updated morally speaking for the modern day. He is also invincible. He basically can't die unless exposed to kryptonite. Supposedly kryptonite is super rare, yet every villain has access to it (even the Joker when Superman gets involved with Batman stuff). His powers are so boring in their, well, overpoweredness that they literally had to invent kryptonite just to give him a weakness, and even then he's still ridiculous. He can't be harmed by conventional means, he can survive in space, he can survive deep-sea pressure, he has laser eyes, he's the strongest thing ever to exist, etc. Some of the comics even state that he's faster than the Flash, a character whose ENTIRE POWER IS TO BE FAST. Superman is like something you'd come up with when you were five years old and arguing about playtime with your brother:

"I shot you!"

"Nuh uh."

"Yeah I did!"

"Well okay but I'm immune to bullets."

"Wait, wh--"


Batman and the Joker have a back-and-forth relationship when it comes to who's cooler. They work off each other, and one couldn't exist without the other. When it comes to Superman, every one of his villains is more interesting than he is.

Anyways, your turn, little piglets.

Have you been paying attention to the 'Gods Among Us' series, or perhaps had a chance to read 'Red Son'? I'm not sticking up for the Supes but he has an assload of comics that aren't !@#$-tier.

Some of the comics even state that he's faster than the Flash, a character whose ENTIRE POWER IS TO BE FAST

Those were for charity.
Snuffit mentioned comics being like a soap opera but Smallville literally was a soap opera with superpowers.

Hey, I watch Telenovelas so I'm not saying that it's a bad thing (except the continuity- I like my cheesy universes to be at LEAST consistent-ish dammit). But yeah, it was totally soapy which was enjoyable until it got flat out stupid. And I find it infinitely amusing that most of the Superhero TV shows are totally Soapy.

Lex was definitely interesting in it early on though.
Never got into comic books or super heroes. I can appreciate the comic book art style though. But the whole concept of super heroes basically turns me off. Heroism is having the courage to do what needs to be done regardless of how much you fear the consequences.

How heroic can you be when youre super human? At best youre a bully who beats up other bullies. So you end up having to invent super villains to threaten your super hero, and things just escalate (or degenerate depending on your point of view) from there. Before you know it, you end up with a Godzilla movie in monthly installments. Not my thing.

I prefer my heroes (and villains) to be mortal and fallible.

- Forbs
"For Gnomeregan!"
I stopped paying attention somewhere around the point that the weird spaceship thing in the cellar started talking to Clark telepathically.
This is the only thing i've seen with superman in it that i've liked

oughta read the whole comic some time. hm
04/25/2013 10:37 AMPosted by Vandrysse

Samurai Jack is always the right answer.

Am I the only one who thinks the Sha is really Aku?

It does bear a striking resemblance, but it doesn't have his GREAT FLAMING EYEBROWS.
I find the overall themes behind superheroes far more interesting than the execution of their stories. Such as Jor-El sending his only son to earth or the parallels between the X-Men and the civil rights movement.

I don't read many of them though, unless they've got a clear story that wraps up soon and neatly. The latest comics I've read were Star Wars: Legacy, and Cade Skywalker just doesn't cut it when held up to the Jedi that came before him.

Now that I think about it, I empathise with Magneto.
Without question, and almost certainly an echoed answer, my favorite hero and villan of comics would be Batman and ... Mr. Freeze.

Batman has the cool gadgets, the martial arts, the crazy intellect... but he also has something else; beneath it all, he's simply a man with a mission; a man who lost it all, who stared into the abyss of vengeance, and instead of being consumed by it, laughed at it and made vengeance consumed by him. What motivates the Dark Knight is not vengeance, but justice. However, he is not above using the tools of thugs against them, including fear.

Mr. Freeze was almost The Joker, but I decided against it and deferred to the other favorite.

Victor Fries is quite possibly one of the most well-written and tragic villans ever, especially if using the reference material from the Animated Series. He was just a normal man who made a bad choice in a desperate bid to save his wife Nora; and though he was wrong and wronged in turn, it did not make him the cold, unfeeling man he is now. He is, however, one of the first villans I actually felt sorry for, because some could just as easily have made the choices he did, and the wrong decisions he made.

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