Ask Mr Robot Frost

Mage
What do you guys have set as your stat weights for AskMrRobot?
Run SimC? Also, anyone wanna comment on how accurate SimC stat weights are this tier? Spoiler alert: If you're fire then it's all crit baby.
Breaktheice suggests for Frost "just slightly increase the default Haste weight to 2.21" and this will ensure Haste gets the priority that Icy-Veins.com suggests. This is if you're too lazy to get exact with Simcraft, etc.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8704281147
huh. your stat weights are your stat weights. changing them to conform with some generic website is literally not so smart.


The default stat weights in AMR are already generic. You seem to be saying that either use your own stat weights from Simcraft within AMR or don't use AMR at all as a tool ... which I don't think is valid.
You should get your stat weights from Simcraft. My experience has been that when you get RPPM trinkets, you should be favor 2 haste over 1 int.

Crit and Mastery are roughly equal in high ilvl gear. Some mages say they are doing better reforging mastery over crit, but I've heard the opposite.

When I run simcraft, crit and mastery are near identical.
With regards to what Frygyd said, I was simply not understanding why most top ranked mages, guides, and our forum MVP were suggesting gemming Haste over Int, and AMR wasn't. I simply adjusted my Haste weight to force AMR to gem Haste for me. AMR is just a calculator aiming for the highest possible score. There's no telling who made the default weights and how/good bad they are.

I haven't messed around with Simcraft, but I like my new gemming better than the default AMR suggests. It's hard to say if it's a major DPS boost without running Sims, but I don't really care.

I did worse this week on Jin Rokh with my re-gemming than with AMR's suggestions last week, but I did get the most focused lightnings in my group and didn't get to fully dps through any one puddle phase. I came in 5th in DPS there (so last among my 10N in dps).

This reversed on Horridon and I finished #1, though just slightly behind in DPS than last week, but I did mess up badly and had IE up only 88% of the time.

I also finished #1 on Council despite dying (it was actually our funniest kill) and was up like 20k dps over last week when I ran AMR's default setup. This was the only fight where things were sort of consistent with last week (up until the deaths, lol) and the dps increase was great.

So I don't know and frankly don't care about the stat weight should be and wont bother running simcraft. I just like the way I've re-gemmed. I'm not one to wreck my brain with simcraft and math. I'd rather just re-gem and try something out myself.
With regards to what Frygyd said, I was simply not understanding why most top ranked mages, guides, and our forum MVP were suggesting gemming Haste over Int, and AMR wasn't. I simply adjusted my Haste weight to force AMR to gem Haste for me. AMR is just a calculator aiming for the highest possible score. There's no telling who made the default weights and how/good bad they are.

I haven't messed around with Simcraft, but I like my new gemming better than the default AMR suggests. It's hard to say if it's a major DPS boost without running Sims, but I don't really care.

I did worse this week on Jin Rokh with my re-gemming than with AMR's suggestions last week, but I did get the most focused lightnings in my group and didn't get to fully dps through any one puddle phase. I came in 5th in DPS there (so last among my 10N in dps).

This reversed on Horridon and I finished #1, though just slightly behind in DPS than last week, but I did mess up badly and had IE up only 88% of the time.

I also finished #1 on Council despite dying (it was actually our funniest kill) and was up like 20k dps over last week when I ran AMR's default setup. This was the only fight where things were sort of consistent with last week (up until the deaths, lol) and the dps increase was great.

So I don't know and frankly don't care about the stat weight should be and wont bother running simcraft. I just like the way I've re-gemmed. I'm not one to wreck my brain with simcraft and math. I'd rather just re-gem and try something out myself.


I mean, this is really anecdotal evidence to go off. That's fine, but I wouldn't go around telling others to do X based on inconsistent testing between two weeks.

I mean, this is really anecdotal evidence to go off. That's fine, but I wouldn't go around telling others to do X based on inconsistent testing between two weeks.


Sorry if Breaktheice and me are being unclear. Icy-veins.com says to gem for Haste. (Haste, Haste/Hit, Int/Haste). This info comes from Blatty who was tapped to update the Mage info. Altering the AMR stat weights is just a way to get AMR suggest the proper gemming according to Icy-Veins.com. Because by default it does not suggest these gems and instead favors Int.

I mean, this is really anecdotal evidence to go off. That's fine, but I wouldn't go around telling others to do X based on inconsistent testing between two weeks.


Sorry if Breaktheice and me are being unclear. Icy-veins.com says to gem for Haste. (Haste, Haste/Hit, Int/Haste). This info comes from Blatty who was tapped to update the Mage info. Altering the AMR stat weights is just a way to get AMR suggest the proper gemming according to Icy-Veins.com. Because by default it does not suggest these gems and instead favors Int.


Yeah, and that's fine and reasonable. I just didn't get the inclusion of 3 really inconsistent tests.

Yeah, and that's fine and reasonable. I just didn't get the inclusion of 3 really inconsistent tests.


Ah that's because it was in another thread where Breaktheice had promised to come back to us and let us know if his changing from Int to Haste gemming improved his DPS at all this week during raiding or not.

Unfortunately he seemed to have some bad luck which made the results sketchy on all but one of the fights where he did notice a large improvement.
I mean, this is really anecdotal evidence to go off. That's fine, but I wouldn't go around telling others to do X based on inconsistent testing between two weeks.

I never did >.>

I just told everyone how to get AMR to follow the gemming strategy most guides/people suggest. I never said it's optimal dps. It just works out better for me.
Run SimC? Also, anyone wanna comment on how accurate SimC stat weights are this tier? Spoiler alert: If you're fire then it's all crit baby.


Unless you're using a development build from the last few days, SimC's crit suppression handling is wrong. Nathyiel recently discovered that SimC was subtracting the 3% crit reduction for attacking a boss after, rather than before, applying multipliers from Shatter and Critical Mass. This was inflating the crit rates on Shatter and Critical Mass spells.

It looks like this was corrected in r16317, but I don't believe that's included in the downloadable binaries yet.
________________________________________________
Find answers to questions about Mage mechanics in
Lhivera’s Compendium • http://lhiveras-library.com/compendium
Have not investigated or altered stat weights for Mr. Robot yet this expansion. I think knowing what the haste caps on NT procs is would be valuable information for precise numbers.
I do know that starting at 500 it recommended gemming haste, then as I attainted higher ilvls it began converting more and more gems to pure int.
This is something worth looking into since I recently gemmed out of socket bonuses. Though I wouldn't be surprised if at higher ilvls you simply get more benefit out of the int > haste.
But like I said, at 499 ilvl and 520 ilvl there is a huge difference in what gemming and reforging I need. Telling someone to gem a certain way may not be the best fit for "their" ilvl.
Have not investigated or altered stat weights for Mr. Robot yet this expansion. I think knowing what the haste caps on NT procs is would be valuable information for precise numbers.
I do know that starting at 500 it recommended gemming haste, then as I attainted higher ilvls it began converting more and more gems to pure int.
This is something worth looking into since I recently gemmed out of socket bonuses. Though I wouldn't be surprised if at higher ilvls you simply get more benefit out of the int > haste.
But like I said, at 499 ilvl and 520 ilvl there is a huge difference in what gemming and reforging I need. Telling someone to gem a certain way may not be the best fit for "their" ilvl.


Based on the information posted both on icy veins and mmo-champion, I think a player should begin gemming haste over INT when the following two conditions are met:

-no difficulty reaching hit cap
-has an RPPM trinket

In this context, haste > int is recommended.

Since making the change to haste gems myself, the biggest change I've noticed is buff uptime. It really is something to get something like BotH back-to-back. Can't report if my DPS has improved though because I haven't raided with my guild since the change. We're also going to be tackling new boos fights, so it'll be a bit before I can get a good comparison.
Rentrenus\Frygyd - just wondering why for your prismic slots you selected the INT\Haste Gem over the pure haste gem given your comments regarding haste over int?
Noxxic still recommends Brilliant, Reckless, and Veiled gems over the purple, yellow, and green combinations. I'm still leaning toward the It-depends-on-your-ilvl camp.
Also MMO champion doesn't specifically state that you should gem haste.
From the Frost Mage PVE Guide
"Haste can be better than int this tier. RPPM's haste scaling tends to push 2 haste above 1 int"
So again, it still depends on the character.

"Please learn how to simulate your character. It will allow you to not need to ask opinions on every little upgrade you get"
Noxxic still recommends Brilliant, Reckless, and Veiled gems over the purple, yellow, and green combinations. I'm still leaning toward the It-depends-on-your-ilvl camp.


Ignore Noxxic

Also MMO champion doesn't specifically state that you should gem haste.
From the Frost Mage PVE Guide
"Haste can be better than int this tier. RPPM's haste scaling tends to push 2 haste above 1 int"
So again, it still depends on the character.


That doesn't contradict what I said. It's exactly what I said. When hit isn't an issue, and you have an RPPM trinket, it's better to gem for haste rather than INT because haste become more valuable than INT. From the exact same guide you posted:

"Once you have an RPPM trinket, haste starts to pull ahead of int. Gem accordingly."

Rentrenus\Frygyd - just wondering why for your prismic slots you selected the INT\Haste Gem over the pure haste gem given your comments regarding haste over int?


Honestly, because it's the current recommendation on icy veins.

I'm more the messenger here than the expert. I'm really just relaying information and enjoy the discussion on the topic. Here's how I rationalize it:

Let's assume that 4.41 INT = 2.205 Haste; although I'm sure the actual numbers are not this clean, it will work for our purposes. Then compare a pure red, a pure yellow, and the orange gem with the suggested scale weights:

Red = 160 INT * 4.41 = 705.6
Yellow = 320 haste * 2.205 = 705.6
Orange = 80 INT + 160 Haste = 352.8+352.8 = 705.6

So points wise, they are the same, and there's no socket bonus to distinguish them. The only distinction between the three is the relative amounts of INT and HASTE that they provide.

My current suspicion is that orange gems are recommended in prismatic sockets because you are being able to simultaneously increase both stats. In the cast of yellow sockets, the socket bonus will typically make gemming pure haste worthwhile because the socket bonus often IS 80 INT or more (often 160 INT).

In other words, the question becomes whether you prefer pure int, pure haste, or equal parts of both. Icy Veins appears to be recommending equal parts of both.
I'm not really sure what the confusion is. AMR is a tool that tries to calculate the best way to optimize your gear based on your stat weight. And since stat weights fluctuate, the weight they use are a default, and in no way accurate for everyone.

To get an accurate weight, plug your character into SIMC, and plug the weight it generates into AMR.

Simple.
The problem with that, Winnrie, is if I import my character from the armory, as he stands now - which is haste gemmed - and run SimC for 10k iterations, it weights int higher than haste. If I take the same exact gear and int gem, import and Sim it, I get weights favoring haste.

I still gem haste though because I know that the haste gemming is providing me a better dps yield.

So let's say an inexperienced user who is currently int gemmed, skims a thread about SimC, has similiar gear to mine, runs SimC and gets haste positive weights.

All is fine.

Then he gets a couple of pieces of new gear and comes back to SimC, runs it again, and this time, being haste gemmed, he gets int positive weights.

So assuming he blindly follows stat weights, he would regem int, which would be the incorrect thing to do based on the assumptions and evidence to the contrary due to RPPM trinkets and the meta. I'm not trying to poke at your advice, I just don't understand what someone not well informed is supposed to take away from this tool.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum