A little question about Destru PVE

Warlock
Hellow fellows warlock,

It's haste better than critical for a Destruction PVE in 5.2?

I thought about this because the helm gem that give 30% haste.
Crit is our absolute worst stat in 5.2 because of the way most fights are designed

Best stat priority in the current tier is

Mastery > Haste >>> Crit

Mastery = highest dps modifier with 2-3+ targets
Haste = highest dps modifier with 1-2 targets

Gems
Red - Int or Int/Mastery
Yellow - Mastery or Int/Mastery
Blue - Int/Hit
Prismatic - Int or Mastery

(The only real disrepenscy with this stat priority is that some warlocks gem more haste than others... past that most all of your top warlocks are going to use the previous stat priority, and this works well with both Go:Sac and Go:Sup as some fights require Go:Sac because of certain mechanics or bugs (although go:sup does yield more dps)).

Also most warlocks are saying that the meta-gem is absolutely horrible for destro (especially after the hotfix) so much to the point that many are testing to see if it's even a dps increase over the blue meta gem.

Edit: Clarification ~ I say crit is the worst stat because it's primary benefit is ember generation, which on most ever fight is negated because haste (RoF upkeep, havoc and such) does this better than crit can... And the bonus damage to chaos bolt isn't even really worth noting since mastery does the same thing as well as increases all of our other single target spells.
So.. for a single target I should go haste, right?
Yes, but there really aren't any purely single-target fights in ToT. Nearly every fight includes either cleaving, AoE, or both. In general, Mastery overweights Haste in ToT due to fight design.
I see, thanks a lot for the help!
Woah woah woah, why are you guys lying to this guy? Haste is terrible for destruction warlocks. It's a dps waste literally, I do not know what the heck you guys have been reading but haste is not even close to our top star as destruction. We hit the GCD barrier with our immolate too often. It is mastery > crit > haste with haste being only equal to mastery till you hit GCD with incinerate with backdraft process and Bloodlust. I roll crit cause in normal ToT there are several single target fights. Jinrokh, Megaera, Jikun, durumu, primordius(excluding bloods which killing these won't make or break a fight.) iron quon and for a majority of the fight, twin consorts. Now if you want to cheese dps many of these fights can see a dps increase from mastery more then crit. But you are generally going to be single targetting on progression. Haste is a no go on single target or multi target fights, just... No. Crit or mastery which ever is your preference, I prefer crit for no particular reason. But you will never stack haste again as a warlock unless you are affliction.
yea half of the fights are single target lol
No, to my understanding haste for single-target is legit. You have to think about building Embers faster through nukes, faster Rain of Fire ticks (which does contribute to single-target dps mind you, if you're bothering with it), and faster Chaos Bolts. Haste also makes for more RPPM trinket procs, which Destro has an issue with in the first place. The haste 1-2 and mastery 3+ rule is pretty much right.

Basically, if the fight is cheesed in a way where most of your damage comes from Embers you should go mastery. Horridon for all the cleaves and SBurns. Primordius since you're dropping Rain of Fire on bloods and literally spamming Chaos Bolts. Those kinds of things. I just stay mastery because my offspec I'm playing with is Demo anyway.
Between Mastery and crit it doesn't matter, but Rain of fire doesn't do enough damage to make up for all the incinerates you won't be casting due to being on GCD for a lot of time. Haste is our worst stat and rain of fire is good to keep up but not no where near good enough to stack a stat specifically for it. Fel flame generates extremely fast embers, we don't use it as a destro lock though, actually we don't use it at all. Also the haste will only help to a certain extent with our RPPM due to the fact we'll be on down time due to our GCD cap. Any warlock should Simcraft haste... it never comes out good. Haste is = to Mastery assuming you never GCD cap, but the fact is that you will cap a lot. Especially if you have the legendary meta, blood lust, or a haste proc on a trinket. Haste is a waste, mastery and crit doesn't really matter which one you choose because there are an equal amount of single target vs multi target fights in ToT. Probably if you want to debate it there are more single target fights. You bring up the primordius fight but if you use Mannoroth's fury like you are supposed to on that fight, you hit enough bloods at one time that even with low haste you'll never be able to use all your embers if you keep it up.

Do not use haste as a top stat, not even close to worth it for the 'rain of fire' ember building. If you are building embers with multiple targets you shouldn't have problems with embers in the first place. On single target it is not worth wasting multitudes of potential incinerates for a little bit more embers from rain of fire.
Oh boy =/ and i just spend all of my precious gold reforging and geming.
The stas change based on which Grimoire you are using. With GoSup, haste is best as it boosts your pets DPS and crit/mastery do not. I use SimC and haste always outweighs crit/mastery.
I did dailies all day, and spend all the money again, and now I'm Hit>Mastery>Haste>Crit, and i need to say, i tried the dps and I did about 80k without food, flask and everything else that i needed to do the same with Critical.
Thanks again for the help!
Yes crit does affect your pets by the way, and with any of the grimoires you lose dps after a haste soft cap. Also dailies are hardly a raid situation, not exactly a way to test dps. In a single target dummy exercise crit outweighs mastery with havoc being used or chaos bolt being on spam mastery wins the day. Haste though ends up wasteful due to not being able to do anything for a while where as mastery or crit will increase the strength they hit with in the same increase that haste would've given without hitting the GCD. I will stand by this and any warlock that is destruction running a haste build is wrong unless they are affliction. If the incinerate didn't hit the GCD so often it probably would be a viable option, but the fact it does ruins it for itself.
I completely agree with you Durantye. I spend so much time on the GCD I've reforged my haste away. With a legendary meta gem on the way (hopefully next week) I feel mastery and crit jump ahead of haste.

I will mention though that crit, haste and mastery are all pretty competitive with each other and things will change depending on your gear. ToT has plenty of variety that all the various builds of secondary stats will do better at some time or another.
It is important to note that haste affects a lot of the new trinkets AND the legendary metagem.

Personally I find mastery to be the best stat, as a lot of fights have cleaving it really improves those havoc shadowburns and chaos bolts. I next go for haste as it affects trinkets like I mentioned and if I need to swap to affliction or even demonology, I will still put out competitive DPS.

Haste and Mastery are the best stats for affliction, and crit is nearly useless for it, hence why I avoid crit.

Across all 3 lock specs, mastery is the strongest stat if you don't plan on regemming and reforging every time you spec swap.
My stat weights sim very close together with mastery only slightly behind haste/crit. I keep the ratings relatively equal as a result. I try to sim regularly as I get upgrades to see if anything suddenly changes.
Don't listen to Durantye. Even if you're getting GCD capped, as long as you're not capping mana, it doesn't matter.

If you are capping mana, on the other hand, first, figure out what you might be able to change how you play to avoid this. If you're doing everything there right and you're still capping mana, lose some haste.

04/28/2013 01:30 AMPosted by Durantye
I will stand by this and any warlock that is destruction running a haste build is wrong unless they are affliction.


Oh yeah that's a real good attitude to have. "I'm right no matter what anyone says or any evidence provided to the contrary!"

I also find it hilarious that you decided to (correctly) inform Mliniak that dailies are a horrible way to judge raid performance, then proceeded to use target dummy tests as evidence.

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