5.3 and ToT

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
So with 5.3 around the corner and item upgrades coming back how do people think this will affect raiding progression? Do you guys think this will significantly boost the amount of guilds clearing tot? And of course this is also under the assumption that thunderforged gear can be upgraded which will be lulz for 25m guilds even possibly letting a guild that couldn't do heroics do it with the massive item level boost.
It's a direct nerf to content.

Also
Another thread discussing how terrible the idea of thunderforge is, and does nothing but make even more 10v25 threads!

My original thoughts, they could just make 2x upgrades be TF, and not allow TF items to be upgraded, and it would still nerf content, remove item RNG qq, and not completely break encounters (Although.... There's already some heroics being broken in simply mid 520 gear)
Yea can't wait till my friends 25m N guild clearing heroics in a full set of upgraded t-forged gear (heroic gear is 535 and upgraded t-forged is 536! lawl) since its raining t-forged in 25m! While my 10m guild hopes to God that some t-forged drops so we can full clear normal and have a shot at heroics!
Lack of 528 gear is not what is preventing you from clearing ToT normal.
Lack of 528 gear is not what is preventing you from clearing ToT normal.


Right because you raid with my group and know it so intimately, trust me gear is part of the issue, at least for us, that and finding a melee dps since our rogue quit.
Getting more gear indirectly "nerfs" raids.

Also, no, gear really isn't an issue for normal ToT. Like GC tweeted recently, gear helps people overcome mechanics more easily (by not having to deal with them). 10N Throne is quite doable with all raid members at 480 ilvl (source: we do it on alt runs).
Having the extra 30k-50k hp across the board helps a lot of random crap in Tot as well though.
Yea can't wait till my friends 25m N guild clearing heroics in a full set of upgraded t-forged gear (heroic gear is 535 and upgraded t-forged is 536! lawl) since its raining t-forged in 25m! While my 10m guild hopes to God that some t-forged drops so we can full clear normal and have a shot at heroics!


have you considered merging with another couple of 10man guilds to pool your resources for better chance at tf loot?
05/01/2013 03:28 AMPosted by Bushmills
Yea can't wait till my friends 25m N guild clearing heroics in a full set of upgraded t-forged gear (heroic gear is 535 and upgraded t-forged is 536! lawl) since its raining t-forged in 25m! While my 10m guild hopes to God that some t-forged drops so we can full clear normal and have a shot at heroics!


have you considered merging with another couple of 10man guilds to pool your resources for better chance at tf loot?


I have actually but it's not as easy since we are a weekend afternoon raid team, and to kangaroos, grats, you have a skilled team that can do tot with 480 gear on alts, unfortunately not everyone is in this boat and gear helps more for some than it does others.
Eh, I'm not excited for it too much. I like having better gear, but to some extent, it makes the fights trivial.

I'm conflicted. My epeen likes the idea of better gear, but the challenge-seeker in me does not .
I'm excited for it mostly because even before I obtained 522 gear, most of the VP gear is itemized like crap and I refused to buy it.

I doubt it will affect things like progression much though, at least for people who are actually finding the current VP gear to be upgrades. For example, if someone is going from a 496 item to 522, they'll spend on average 1,750VP for 26 ilvls. When upgrades come back, no matter which item they choose they'll be getting 28 item levels for 1,750VP...not that much of a difference.

It'll be nice to pick and choose where our item levels go (trinkets, weapons), and sure it can be seen as a slight nerf to content since you'll just upgrade your best itemized slots and/or thunderforged gear, but I'm glad it's returning.
05/01/2013 03:13 AMPosted by Sûnny
Lack of 528 gear is not what is preventing you from clearing ToT normal.


Right because you raid with my group and know it so intimately, trust me gear is part of the issue, at least for us, that and finding a melee dps since our rogue quit.


yes and no. yes about the gear because , theoretically, the better your gear is , the easier the challenge should be. And yes , the upgrade thingy stuff is a direct nerf to content, excepted instead of doing it like they had done it with fireland ( nerf of around 20% if my memory is correct), the players will gradually nerf the content by 'upgrading their gear".

However, those upgrades will not allow you to avoid mechanics...so even if you can upgrade your gear around 14 ilv above and yet refuse to follow some mechanics , it will mostly end up as fail.

@OP: don't I know you from somewhere? o.0
And you don't think they design bosses on 10m assuming they get less TF gear and 25m assuming they get more? (I'll never understand mass conspiracy theorists and apologists for not being good enough)

Ya, this is a mass nerf to content. Quite effective too since there will be very, very few complaints about Blizz nerfing content. Especially compared to if they flat nerfed it.
It will be interesting when upgrades do come out to see 25 man guilds sharding heroic gear because upgraded normal thunderforged is better.

I would hope Blizzard limits thunderforged gear to one upgrade since it is already upgraded really.

This way normal thunderforged would be at max 532 ilvl with heroic gear still being an upgrade.

It would also still leave an upgraded thunderforged piece of gear better than a fully upgraded normal piece of gear at 532 ilvl versus 530 ilvl.

I doubt Blizzard will do that.
Not much in the way of gear checks in T15. Mostly mechics based fights. Gear doesn't equal win this tier imo.
05/01/2013 02:09 AMPosted by Sûnny
So with 5.3 around the corner and item upgrades coming back how do people think this will affect raiding progression?

I think it will be a decent buff to normal mode guilds. Most of our people will go into 5.3 valor-capped, which means they will get to immediately pick up 48 ilevels in upgrade. That's about the equivalent of getting two item drops per person, which isn't too shabby (though hardly game breaking).

I agree with Asane that the extra health is likely to have a significant impact on people stuck in normal modes - it really does increase the room for error/throughput.

I think you'll see a lot of normal mode guilds accelerate to Lei Shen relatively quickly once the patch hits.
05/01/2013 08:54 AMPosted by Ariktu
It will be interesting when upgrades do come out to see 25 man guilds sharding heroic gear because upgraded normal thunderforged is better.


That would just be silly. They would keep the heroic gear and then upgrade that.

With the reduced cost you're able to fully upgrade two items per week. Sharding 535(0/2) gear because you have 536(2/2) gear equipped would just be asinine.
05/01/2013 03:13 AMPosted by Sûnny
Lack of 528 gear is not what is preventing you from clearing ToT normal.


Right because you raid with my group and know it so intimately, trust me gear is part of the issue, at least for us, that and finding a melee dps since our rogue quit.

According to WoWProgress, your raiding team has a 512 average ilvl...that's more than enough to clear normal ToT

Also, I really like Asane's idea of not being able to upgrade TF gear.
As someone who's been ridiculously buried in thunderforged gear in 10s, I can tell you it's not an insane numbers boost. It helps, but beyond the weapon upgrade the difference between 522 and 528 is not something to wet your pants over.

The day 5.3 drops and everyone can suddenly upgrade weapon, chest, legs, helm, and trinkets, THAT is a big deal. Valor upgrades will be a bigger difficulty nerf than thunderforged droprates.
Not much in the way of gear checks in T15. Mostly mechics based fights. Gear doesn't equal win this tier imo.


Uhh Dark Animus heroic?

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