Guardian Tank help

Druid
Hello everyone,
I'm rather new to tanking and am the OT for progression. I was recently told that I'm taking too much damage and need to do something about it. Any Guardian tanks willing to impart some knowledge?

All my WoL are located here : http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-8kqbnfihsnn8exr8/

Thanks again =)
Why are you tanking the boss the entire time?

It's basically because you're taking so many TPs. Everything else you're doing is fine.
Well, there are 2 ways to Forge / Gem ... it looks like your going for active midigation

Your Dodge -> haste reforge on your shoulders is kinda strange but meh.

For active mitigation you want to:
- Use Mangle on Cooldown
- Keep Thrash up on target 100% of the time
- Use Savage Def as much as possible (this is the active mitigation part ... pretty much want it rolling 100% of the time)
- Use Maul to dump extra rage

If your healers are still complaining about you taking too much dmg because you suck at active mitigation (some people just cant do it very well) you could rejem / reforge to dodge.

I for one have been Tanking all the content you are cept ToT norm in kitty gear just using active mitigation. Healers say I take less dmg than some of the other offtanks that have more gear ... so it is possible just takes practice.

Edit: I filtered your Horidon Attempts by Uptime of your Savage Def

http://db.tt/GHbwHNn5

its going up then falling off ... then back up and falling off. Try grabbing an addon like WeakAuras, set it to track SD uptime ... and try to keep it up like 80 to 90% of the time. End result should change the picture I linked to a almost solid green bar of uptime and alot of happier healers.

I also noticed that when your dmg goes up ... your SD uptime goes down ... im guessing whats happing is your dmg is spiking due to Thrash / Swipe on lots of adds ... if your tanking all those adds your hitting you should really be keeping SD up for that part.
Not a fan of your valor trinket. I prefer the hit/agi proc one.

Going to focus on the Horridon kill in your linked log for this as it is the longest fight and I am typing this from work with limited time to focus on this.

Looking at your logs I see that you are keeping pretty good uptime on savage defense but still seem to be dodging a relatively low amount of attacks. May just be bad RNG but make sure you are not letting things hit you from behind. Also, savage defense is pretty effective but the real key to it is knowing when to hit savage defense and when to use the rage for something else. Say Horridon has just hit you with triple puncture and you have 60 rage. Assuming you hit a savage defense two seconds before the triple puncture that might be a good time to hit frenzied regen to top yourself off. Alternatively you could also use that time to hit a tooth and claw backed maul and then still have enough rage in three more seconds to hit savage defense again.

On your horridon kill you had very high uptime on barkskin with ten total uses. This might be a good thing but why were you using it? Obviously reducing damage is good but it looks almost like you used it on cooldown. You may be using it perfectly well, hard for me to say from that. In general you need to have a feel for the fight and for your healers to know when to pop short cooldowns like that.

Your ability use in general seems solid. You could work in more cenarion wards. Your mangle usage for the Horridon kill seems low considering that you used incarnation twice. Also, given the ten minute kill, you probably could have safely worked in an extra use of incarnation. I see that you are talented for nature's vigil but you don't seem to be using it often.

Also, I notice that you only got one external cooldown (hand of sacrifice). Don't hesitate to call for hand of sacrifice/ironbark/pain suppression/guardian spirit/etc if your health is getting low or you know a high damage event is coming (Jalak landing/etc).

Max out your enchanting to get the ring enchants. They would add some survivability.

Already touched on this once but the shado pan hit/agi proc trinket would be an upgrade over either of your current trinkets and would let you swap around some reforges and gems. Extra rage generation certainly wouldn't hurt and would let you pop more frenzied regens without stopping you from using savage defense.

Are they complaining about your damage taken on any specific fight? On council I manage my rage and savage defense such that I basically don't drop below two available uses of savage defense while frigid assault is not active and then try to keep savage defense active for the duration of frigid assault along with popping barkskin/boneshield (from symbiosis, you could use your monk and get the dodge from him and use then) and use excess rage to heal myself or use tooth and claw procs on malak while I burn suul.
Thank you for the replies so far!

The main fight I guess they're complaining about my damage intake is probably Council. It would be nice for me to try and reduce my intake as the rest of the raid likes to stand in stuff all the time =\ (or that's what the RL/healers are saying)

The trinket with dodge I have enough valor now to replace it. I saw what other Bears were using and am going to go with the Vicious (sp?) trinket.

I just spec'd into Nature's Vigil about an hour ago.

I'm not surprised I suck at active mitigation. I will do my best to work at it

Why are you tanking the boss the entire time?

It's basically because you're taking so many TPs. Everything else you're doing is fine.

I was tanking Horridon the entire time because I was asked to by the RL (I'm assuming that's what fight we're discussing) .They decided to use Hand of Protection on me between doors. Our raid as a whole was having a difficult time with not standing in stuff during that fight and the RL felt it would be easier for him to see where everyone is if he's holding adds.
05/03/2013 03:21 PMPosted by Wipati
The main fight I guess they're complaining about my damage intake is probably Council.

Ah, I didn't look at your council logs. I can definitely give you some help there. I looked at your longest attempt (5:09).

You should have 100% SD uptime during Frigid Assault, which means you will never actually get stunned. Use T&C between FAs to mitigate damage from Malakk. Save Barkskin in case for some reason you do get stunned.

You also had 0 interrupts. Make a focus macro:

/cast [@focus] Skull Bash

And use that to interrupt Sand Bolts.

Ah, I didn't look at your council logs. I can definitely give you some help there. I looked at your longest attempt (5:09).

You should have 100% SD uptime during Frigid Assault, which means you will never actually get stunned. Use T&C between FAs to mitigate damage from Malakk. Save Barkskin in case for some reason you do get stunned.

You also had 0 interrupts. Make a focus macro:

/cast [@focus] Skull Bash

And use that to interrupt Sand Bolts.


So, with 100% uptime of SD during FA, does that mean I can keep Malakk and not have my MT taunt before 15 stacks? Sorry if I sound stupid, just wondering. I shall make that macro and use it too. Thank you, Arielle =)

Ah, I didn't look at your council logs. I can definitely give you some help there. I looked at your longest attempt (5:09).

You should have 100% SD uptime during Frigid Assault, which means you will never actually get stunned. Use T&C between FAs to mitigate damage from Malakk. Save Barkskin in case for some reason you do get stunned.

You also had 0 interrupts. Make a focus macro:

/cast [@focus] Skull Bash

And use that to interrupt Sand Bolts.


So, with 100% uptime of SD during FA, does that mean I can keep Malakk and not have my MT taunt before 15 stacks? Sorry if I sound stupid, just wondering. I shall make that macro and use it too. Thank you, Arielle =)
No, it just means the other tank probably won't have to taunt because you probably won't reach 15 stacks.
05/03/2013 02:37 PMPosted by Firelèáf
its going up then falling off ... then back up and falling off. Try grabbing an addon like WeakAuras, set it to track SD uptime ... and try to keep it up like 80 to 90% of the time. End result should change the picture I linked to a almost solid green bar of uptime and alot of happier healers.


It is only possible to have 2/3 uptime on SD , plus 42 seconds. It lasts 6 seconds but you only get a new charge every 9 seconds.
No, it just means the other tank probably won't have to taunt because you probably won't reach 15 stacks.

Considering the chance of of not dodging 15 out of 20 attacks is less than 1/1000th of a percent with 30 seconds of Savage Defense, I'm pretty sure "probably" is not the correct term to use.
05/03/2013 10:39 PMPosted by Arielle
No, it just means the other tank probably won't have to taunt because you probably won't reach 15 stacks.

Considering the chance of of not dodging 15 out of 20 attacks is less than 1/1000th of a percent with 30 seconds of Savage Defense, I'm pretty sure "probably" is not the correct term to use.


Malakk dual-wields, 2s swing timer, but thanks to casts he's more getting off 21-25 attacks.

25 attacks bumps it up to ~3.5% to get stunned at 60% dodge, ~5% at 58%.

And from personal experience, I have way too many close calls, using elusive brew sym and SD.

"Probably" is absolutely the correct term to use. Thankfully if you do get stunned, frigid assault will almost always be over or within a swing of being over, and malakk's basic melee swings are pathetic and not worth getting worried about, even while stunned.
05/03/2013 03:21 PMPosted by Wipati
I'm not surprised I suck at active mitigation. I will do my best to work at it
Not what I said ... I said 'IF' you suck you can try going passive mitigation and its not that much worse than properly doing active mitigation.

I stand corrected that you can not maintain 100% Savage Def but I still thing that getting Weak Auras and setting it up to track it for you might help.
25 attacks bumps it up to ~3.5% to get stunned at 60% dodge, ~5% at 58%.

Yeah I totally did that wrong.

I stand corrected that you can not maintain 100% Savage Def but I still thing that getting Weak Auras and setting it up to track it for you might help.
You can for a lot of the situations where it matters though, which is the point.
We downed council last night. The group tried a different strat as well as me trying what was suggested here. Thank you guys, we're on to the next 3 =)

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