Elemental shaman buff or nerf?

Shaman
so as the new ptr patch notes came out today this is what i found!

"Lava Burst had base damage increased by 25%, but no longer lists additional damage from spell power."

now i am not sure if this overall is a buff because of the 25% buff to it's base damage or overall a nerf due to not getting any bonuses from spell power. any thoughts on this?
Its just bad data mining.. MAYBE it means some numbers are being touched wich could translate in a buff or something, but the actual data you are seeing is completely inaccurate.
i read that from the patch notes on mmo-champion, i didint realize they weren't official.
i read that from the patch notes on mmo-champion, i didint realize they weren't official.


When it comes to notes showing on MMO, you need to be aware of what the colors mean for text.

If it is blue, then that is an official change from blizzard that is added to PTR or hotfix.

If it is green that means it was datamined from the code. Sometimes the datamine proves to come true later on, while other times it was an error or never implemented at all.

Once saw a datamine for rogues that made sinister strike do 0% weapon damage.
well that 25% change has currently been implemented on the ptr as far as i can see and others.
Both a buff and nerf.

In a world without Haste, it's a small nerf. The spell takes 33% longer to complete but only does 25% more damage.
100k @ 1.5sec = 66.6k dps
125k @ 2sec = 62.5k dps

Since Ele often reforges into Haste and the meta gem grants a large sum of Haste, Lava Burst was often dropping well below a 1.0sec cast time and becoming GCD capped. As such, for Ele Shamans who still reforge into haste and use Reckless gems for the yellow sockets, the longer cast time reduces the frequency of GCD capping.

For example, if procs (or Heroism) dropped the cast time to 0.6sec previously, but 0.8sec now, the spell will simply do 25% more damage, since youre 1.0sec GCD prevented any other casts anyway.

If your gear was such that your Lava Burst was never being GCD capped, then this is just a very minor nerf. I feel the net result for most Ele Shamans will be no noticable change, but probably a minor buff for those with the legendary meta. It should also increase the value of Haste, but I don't know if the margin would be enough to overthrow Int as the gem priority.

And this should also be a noticable buff with Ascendance + Heroism/Meta Gem proc.
05/14/2013 01:37 PMPosted by Thundere
In a world without Haste

and without lava surge procs
People on PTR are saying the change includes 25% base damage increase PLUS now 100% of spellpower vs the old 80%.

But i guess on PTR the spell is also still at a 1.5 second cast time, but does include the damage buffs.
i don't know how to do all the math and crap but unless something is missing on PTR it that lava burst is doing super damage. so, unless something is missing it appears to be a buff
it's a huge buff. the main reason is that the opportunity cost of casting a longer lava burst just means less casts of lightning bolt and other fillers. so while the time spent casting lava burst may have slightly lower dps, your overall single target dmg should still increase, since you would be spending that extra .5 seconds casting lightning bolt if lava burst were still a 1.5 second cast.

here's a simplified example (no other spells, no instant procs, no consideration of gcd capping) with exaggerated numbers to make it clear:

An 8 second rotation with a 1.5 second lava burst -
lava burst dps: 1,000,000
lightning bolt dps: 2

lava burst is cast once. its dps is one million, and the cast time is 1.5 seconds, so it does 1.5 million dmg. 6.5 seconds of cast time for lightning bolt remain, and it does 2 damage per second. so it averages about 13 damage in that 6.5 seconds.
total damage: 1,500,013

an 8 second rotation with a 2 second lava burst cast that does 25% more dmg, but takes .5 seconds longer to cast:
lava burst dps: 937,500 (this is the correct adjustment to dps based on the new lava burst)
lightning bolt dps: 2

lava burst has 937,500 dps and takes 2 seconds to cast, so it does 1,875,000 dmg. lightning bolt only casts for 6 seconds, this time it does 12 damage.
total dmg: 1,875,012

obviously these numbers are ridiculous, but the point holds true as long as lava burst has higher dps than lightning bolt. it's like if you work 40 hours a week, but split it evenly between 2 jobs. one pays 20 dollars an hour, the other pays 10. your boss at the higher-paying job suddenly says he'll allow you to work an extra 10 hours a week, but he'll only pay you 19 dollars an hour. still, this allows you to spend 10 fewer hours at the 10 dollar an hour job, and 10 more hours at the good job. now you spend the same amount of time working, but you average more money per hour at the end of the week, despite taking a pay cut. think of ascendance as a cooldown that allows you to spend all of your time working at the good job, and think of this new lava burst as being a small step in the direction of having permanent ascendance.

the only potential thing to consider is how the new lava burst compares to high damage-per-GCD dumps, like fulmination. but no matter what, this change will still be a buff if you're doing a solid rotation

it's also a huge buff for GCD capping situations. it's potentially a minor nerf to ascendance burst dmg, but it may not be at all, depending on your haste values and what abilities you stack ascendance with, like haste procs and elemental mastery.

there's a minor effect working against the new lava burst - its cooldown is effectively increased by an amount equal to the additional cast time. lava burst is an 8 second cooldown, but its cooldown doesn't start until it has been finished casting, and you cannot start casting again until the cooldown is finished. so the cast time is a limbo in between cooldown timers. in effect, you only get to cast lava burst once every ~9.1 seconds (if no lava surge procs). now it will be more like once every ~9.5. still, this effect is more than offset by the overall dps gain of the longer lava burst, and is further offset by lava surge procs

MOST IMPORTANTLY: BIGGER NUMBERS ARE MORE FUN TO LOOK AT. HOW CAN YOU ARGUE WITH THAT?
its a nerf for pvp since it's odd because ele is one of the worst caster
now with instant cast procs it's a bit weird. don't forget that instant procs often still benefit from shorter cast times, because an instant cast proc uses its cast time to determine how long its GCD is going to be, IF that GCD is less than 1.5 seconds.

an instant cast 1.5 second lava burst with 30% reduced cast time (1.05 second cast time) will give you a 1.05 second GCD.

an instant cast 2 second lava burst with 30% reduced cast time (1.4 second cast) will give you a 1.4 second GCD.

so in that case, the dps is exactly the same as if you had actually hardcast those spells, meaning the new lava burst will have slightly inferior dps. in this situation, instant cast procs don't benefit its dps at all. it's actually slightly worse.

HOWEVER, this situation requires you to be in a sweet spot, where your haste value is low enough that your 1.5 second lava burst would NOT be GCD capped, but high enough that your new 2 second lava burst is less than 1.5 seconds.

for haste values where your 1.5 second lava burst drops below the GCD cap, it becomes inferior due to the new lava burst working better with GCD capping. there isn't any direct interaction with the instant cast proc in this situation; the old lava burst is worse regardless of whether it was instant or hardcast, and will lose the same amount of dps whether it is instant or hardcast. the new lava burst, whether instant or hardcast, wouldbe better in this situation simply because it is much harder to GCD cap.

for haste values where your 2 second lava burst is not fast enough to go below the 1.5 second GCD cap, it will benefit from the instant cast proc by having its GCD reduced to 1.5 seconds. it gets "free cast time" by being reduced from - for example - a 1.95 second cast down to a 1.5 second GCD.

there is also a little but of wiggle room here, where the slightly higher dps of the old lava burst will override the dps gain from the new lava burst if youre very close to GCD limits. if your 2 second lava burst is reduced to a 1.51 second cast, then it benefits very little from its "free cast time" when reduced to a 1.5 second GCD.

if your 1.5 second lava burst is GCD capped almost exactly - like a .99 second cast time - then it has lost very little dps by going below the GCD cap, and its slightly higher dps means that it is still a more efficient use of GCD time than the new lava burst.

however, remember that this gain is generally going to be offset by the fact that the opportunity to spend additional time casting lava burst is still better than the opportunity to spend time casting most of your fillers. so even though the old lava burst would have slightly higher dps in a situation where it is perfectly GCD capped, or sitting the in "sweet spot," this effect is outweighed by the fact that the extra time you spend casting lava burst is a better opportunity than what you would be casting instead.
So . . . is this new change good for pvpers (outside the indirect nerf to ascendance)?
So . . . is this new change good for pvpers (outside the indirect nerf to ascendance)?


Bigger burst = better imo. We'll have to use more haste to offset the change but just considering lava surge alone this will be awesome.

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