LF Feedback – Pet Abilities Adjustments

Pet Battles
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I vote for the second set of changes as it will require less change than the first.
The flavor of the effective/ineffective combinations is way off and currently completely arbitrary. If you're going to revamp one, revamp them all to make more practical sense. Here is my take on it to much more strongly represent some key flavor ideas - especially on the effective/+50% interactions. Birds eat mice, water rusts metal, humans kill dragons, and undead scare humans but can't scare machines.

Aquatic short-circuits/rusts (+50%) Mechanical, but can't affect (-33%) Elemental.
Beasts consume (+50%) Aquatics, but can't reach (-33%) Flying.
Critters infest (+50%) Undead, but can't annoy (-33%) Aquatics.
Dragonkin manipulate (+50%) Magic, but can't manipulate (-33%) Undead.
Elemental blasts (+50%) Beast, but don't bother (-33%) Humanoids.
Flying consume (+50%) Critters, but can't eat (-33%) Dragonkin.
Humanoids vanquish (+50%) Dragonkin, but can't exterminate (-33%) Critters.
Magic controls (+50%) Elemental, but can't control (-33%) Beasts.
Mechanical shoots down (+50%) Flying, but can't hit (-33%) Magic.
Undead scare (+50%) Humanoids, but can't scare (-33%) Mechanical.

Putting this in terms of Damage Taken (underlining interactions which are the same as current):
  • Undead take +50% from Critters, -33% from Dragonkin.
  • Humanoid take +50% from Undead, -33% from Elementals.
  • Dragonkin take +50% from Humanoid, -33% from Flying.
  • Magic take +50% from Dragonkin, -33% from Mechanical.
  • Elemental takes +50% from Magic, -33% from Aquatic.
  • Beast takes +50% from Elemental, -33% from Magic.
  • Aquatic takes +50% from Beast, -33% from Critter.
  • Mechanical take +50% from Aquatic, -33% from Undead.
  • Flying takes +50% from Mechanical, -33% from Beasts.
  • Critter takes +50% from Flying, -33% from Humanoid.
  • (Edit: slight modification to eliminate split +50% cycles, and add Damage Taken info)
    We’re looking to make further Pet Battles adjustments in a future patch (potentially 5.4), and your valuable feedback is needed!

    Currently, in an Elemental vs. Mechanical matchup, Elementals gain both an attack bonus versus Mechanicals as well as a defensive bonus against Mechanical abilities. In order to help even the playing field a bit, we were mulling over some potential changes to damage types, and the families they would be weak against.

    Here are some initial ideas that are being kicked around:

  • Mechanical abilities would deal less damage versus Critter (instead of Elemental)
  • Elemental abilities would deal less damage versus Dragonkin (instead of Critter)
  • Flying abilities would deal less damage versus Elemental (instead of Dragonkin)

  • And here is a second set of ideas we’re considering:

  • Undead abilities would deal less damage versus Elemental (instead of Aquatic)
  • Mechanical abilities would deal less damage versus Aquatic (instead of Elemental)

  • Your thoughts on these potential changes would be really helpful, so please take a moment to reply below and let us know what you think.


    I like the following:

    Mechanical abilities would deal less damage versus Critter (instead of Elemental)
    <More Realistic>
    Undead abilities would deal less damage versus Elemental (instead of Aquatic)
    <More Realistic>

    I don't like
    Elemental abilities would deal less damage versus Dragonkin (instead of Critter)
    <Less realistic>
    Mechanical abilities would deal less damage versus Aquatic (instead of Elemental)
    <Less realistic>
    The flavor of the effective/ineffective combinations is way off and currently completely arbitrary. If you're going to revamp one, revamp them all to make more practical sense. A couple of these come out as a bit arbitrary, but it much more strongly represents some key flavor - especially on the effective/+50% interactions. Birds eat mice, water rusts metal, humans kill dragons, and undead scare humans but can't scare machines.

    Aquatic splashes/rusts (+50%) Mechanical, but can't reach (-33%) Flying.
    Beasts consume (+50%) Aquatics, but can't consume (-33%) Elementals.
    Critters pester (+50%) Beasts, but can't annoy (-33%) Aquatics.
    Dragonkin manipulate (+50%) Magic, but can't manipulate (-33%) Undead.
    Elementals disrupt (+50%) Flying, but don't disrupt (-33%) Humanoids.
    Flying consume (+50%) Critters, but can't eat (-33%) Dragonkin.
    Humanoids vanquish (+50%) Dragonkin, but can't exterminate (-33%) Critters.
    Magic controls (+50%) Undead, but can't control (-33%) Beasts.
    Mechanical pounds (+50%) Elementals, but can't pound (-33%) Magic.
    Undead scare (+50%) Humanoids, but can't scare (-33%) Mechanical.


    Not bad actually; probably would require a more thorough revamp than they are prepared for honestly. Also the elemental one is a little bit questionable.
    The problem today in meta game is not related to weak/strong attack, but to pets within families. There are no good aquatic or critter pets that people like in pvp, they are a very rare sight. And by nature of that this makes elemental pets a good choice, you are not likely to be countered.

    So if you just change who is weak vs any of these 2 you'll just shift the popularity but it won't fix meta. I think the best way to fix it is to make generic critters, aquatic, and flying pets more desirable.

    When was the last time you've seen a frog or a squirrel or an owl in pvp? I can't even remember it's been so long... people mostly play human, dragon, elemental, mech on my realm.
    Am I the only one who is troubled by the constant changes to Pet Battles? I love adding on to it and the quality of life changes. The constant nerfing and buffing and now re-arranging stuff? Is this what it's going to become? Does it really need such an overhaul?
    Of the two I prefer option one. It seems to balance things more evenly than option two
    Currently there are at least one or two pets that are "counter pets" to each family.

    Except for Beast, as there is no Flying Pet with mechanical attacks ( or at least none listed on Warcraftpets).

    The flavor of the effective/ineffective combinations is way off and currently completely arbitrary. If you're going to revamp one, revamp them all to make more practical sense. A couple of these come out as a bit arbitrary, but it much more strongly represents some key flavor - especially on the effective/+50% interactions. Birds eat mice, water rusts metal, humans kill dragons, and undead scare humans but can't scare machines.


    This makes wonderful sense, but it's likely we're much too far into pet battling for it it be put into effect.
    Are these proposed changes mainly for PVP or mainly for PVE?

    The basic weakness of the pet damage system is that damage type is not restricted to the class of that type. e.g. Aquatic frogs have Critter damage.

    Even with the proposed changes, there will still be examples of pets with both a damage advantage to class A, which also take reduced damage from class A.
    The fewer overall changes, the better. I vote option #2.
    Hello Crintho

    Just wanted to quickly chime in with a problem on a family perk.

    The undead family perk is useless if the undead pet is the last in your line up. Since the pet always dies it cannot actually help you to win pvp, trainer battles, or get experience for leveling.

    Obviously any perk that doesn't actually help you win isn't a perk.

    Simply changing it so that if the enemies team is wiped out completely the Undead pets immortal round will not finish him off so it can enjoy the perks of winning.

    I've heard other people express a similar frustration.

    Keep up the Good work.
    Second set. Mechanical needs the help but fewer changes is better.
    05/22/2013 04:22 PMPosted by Shakakhan
    Am I the only one who is troubled by the constant changes to Pet Battles?


    I don't think you are alone at all. A lot of the replies are asking for whatever has the least changes regardless of the effectiveness of the change, and we're the forum community which keeps up far better with changes than a normal player.

    I kind of wonder if Elemental v Mechanical matchups are really such a big problem that they warrant major changes. I know people quit normal WoW when things change too much and they just don't want to relearn everything, so I just really don't want to see that happen with pet battles.
    If you aren't willing to completely overhaul the defensive counter system, then I prefer the second set of changes.

    Making Undead weak against Elemental is a good way to nerf Undead pets without messing with the passive and makes Mechanicals more viable.


    I feel like the second one not only makes more thematic sense but doesnt shake things up as much as compared to the first.


    I like the logic here. Second set feels better to me.

    I seriously don't get the point of the changes. The changes proposed or why it was even thought of. Anyone have any insight into this?


    I have always thought that it was a problem to have a whole family that is a double counter. I created a thread about it many months ago. Mechs are kind of a liability in pvp for this reason. Especially since there are so many good elementals.
    The ideal way to fix it is to make it an actual system rather than hodgepodge. The best two ways are basing it on -2 or +3. With -2, you have to change less (7 out of the 10). With +3, you have to change more (all except one), but it is more diverse because -2 actually just creates two loops that never interact.

    -2:
    Critter weak against Mechanical.
    Beast weak against Elemental.
    Mechanical weak against Aquatic.
    Elemental weak against Flying.
    Aquatic weak against Magic.
    Flying weak against Dragon.
    Magic weak against Humanoid.
    Dragon weak against Undead.
    Humanoid weak against Critter.
    Undead weak against Beast.

    +3:
    Critter weak against Dragon.
    Beast weak against Humanoid.
    Mechanical weak against Undead.
    Elemental weak against Critter.
    Aquatic weak against Beast.
    Flying weak against Mechanical.
    Magic weak against Elemental.
    Dragon weak against Aquatic.
    Humanoid weak against Flying.
    Undead weak against Magic.

    Unfortunately, my suggestion results in a much larger series of changes than the ones you're proposing, but it also makes far more sense to have a structure for the system behind defensive counters.


    I would like to see the +3 system change proposed here or something similar to it. It will be a lot of work but i think its worth it as the end result should be more predictable and shouldn't need any more balancing.
    Mechanical doing less to critters makes sense to me (as the rodent can dodge faster than the big machine moves.)
    05/20/2013 03:24 PMPosted by Digerati
    Only concern is that now Mechanicals will be stronger than they are in their current state.


    I agree with this as you have to factor in the fact that mechs self rez when you are fighting against them and there are time when your team makeup is going to be weak to begin with.
    Dear blizzard,
    The proposed changes are not necessary, there are a few players who would want you to constantly change things, and not necessarily for the good. Your development teams certainly got pet battles done right-now leave them alone, they are not broken and do not need to be tampered with. You are heading down the same road you did when you messed with winterspring-taking an aspect of wow that the majority of players just absolutely loves and sent it down the toilet.....please do learn from your past mistakes and make sure that the left hand does know what the right hand and head are doing.
    Currently, in an Elemental vs. Mechanical matchup, Elementals gain both an attack bonus versus Mechanicals as well as a defensive bonus against Mechanical abilities. In order to help even the playing field a bit, we were mulling over some potential changes to damage types, and the families they would be weak against.


    These are interesting ideas. But I did like the idea of having a "Pure" pet like a Siames "AKA Hayate" (Beast) and some other pets like my Feline Familiar "Jiji" (beast) having lots of magic type attacks. See PetsOfWarcraft video 10 (on YouTube) on "Hybrid Pets".

    I'm willing to test a new Strengths VS Weakness system because it might add a little spice to the game. But I'm not 100% sure it will fix all of the imbalance.

    Maybe it could be in the 5.4 PTR. Please let me know, and I'll test it out.

    -Arashi
    PetsOfWarcraft
    I vote for the second option, both because the change is smaller and because the changes seem to make more sense, thinking about which type should be strong against what.

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