Titan Runestone Drop Rate

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06/07/2013 03:55 PMPosted by Rygarius
Is the chance of a runestone droping the same regaurdless of if you kill the boss first in LFR, Normal, or Heroic Mode?

The chance is the same regardless of difficulty/mode.


I don't believe this is true. It may be for Titan Runestones, but for the Secrets of the Empire, my guildies got them at roughly 4x the LFR rate from normal mode. To be more specific, a couple of them finished this step in half the time I did, despite starting later, only doing the first 4-6 bosses in normal mode, and never doing LFR. (I did every boss in LFR every week and very rarely did anything on normal).
06/07/2013 07:41 PMPosted by Memories
I don't believe this is true. It may be for Titan Runestones, but for the Secrets of the Empire, my guildies got them at roughly 4x the LFR rate from normal mode. To be more specific, a couple of them finished this step in half the time I did, despite starting later, only doing the first 4-6 bosses in normal mode, and never doing LFR. (I did every boss in LFR every week and very rarely did anything on normal).

The chance is random but remains the same across different difficulties. Your guildmates just happen to encounter a streak of good luck while running Normal difficulty.

The guaranteed drop from Lei Shen is meant to be an upper cap for players that experience a streak of bad luck. The discussion seems to be if this upper cap is still too long.
The discussion seems to be if this upper cap is still too long.

I would have to say yes, it is. If a player has truly bad luck it can take them 12 weeks to finish this quest starting next week when the fix goes live. The "Test of Valor" quest originally took 6 weeks to finish and was later decided that 6 weeks was too long and reduced to 3 weeks.

If 6 weeks is too long for one part of the Legendary, I would certainly think 12 weeks (assuming bad RNG, which lots of players have been seeing) is too long as well. Especially since the quest before it was "Collect X random raid drop items." and a previous quest in the chain was also "Collect X of this random raid drop item, and X of that one too." (The Wisdom/Power drops were also later increased if I recall correctly.)
The chance is random but remains the same across different difficulties. Your guildmates just happen to encounter a streak of good luck while running Normal difficulty.

The guaranteed drop from Lei Shen is meant to be an upper cap for players that experience a streak of bad luck. The discussion seems to be if this upper cap is still too long.


Yes it is. The variance is just too high. I have killed the same bosses my main tank has, he is almost done and I have 1, just 1 runestone.

What if you run both normal and lfr? Since you only get one chance, it would be kinda dumb to actively not run LFR, or delay it until later in the week, to get a higher runestone drop chance.


No, I don't think it would be "dumb" at all. You, Blizzard, have repeatedly said that normal mode raiders shouldn't HAVE to run LFR. So no, I don't think it would be "dumb" to do normal mode first - since you keep saying that normal mode raiders shouldn't feel forced to do LFR.
Hello there.

We agree and feel that Titan Runestones drop too rarely. We are going to make some changes to Lei Shen.

For players that are on the legendary quest line, Lei Shen will now always drop a Titan Runestone. This is similar to what we did with rare drops in the past and will help players that have been experiencing really bad luck.

This change is still undergoing testing and is scheduled to take effect next Tuesday with the raid resets.


Excellent. So it would seem I'm at max five weeks away, as I'm now at 7/12.

My expectations were set high. Doing LFR only, the first two weeks I got two each week. I got the absurd thought in my head it was set to give two a week.

Then third week, nothing. Then, two; next week, one, to my total of seven.

But nice to know that within a short time I'll have this finished and can get closer to that cloak.

What if you run both normal and lfr? Since you only get one chance, it would be kinda dumb to actively not run LFR, or delay it until later in the week, to get a higher runestone drop chance.


Quoted by a bluuuuuuuuue
Please consider adding guaranteed drops to Lei Shen and Dark Animus.

I've been on this step for 5 weeks and my drops have been 1/6, 1/6, 2/6, 2/6, 0/6. (for 6 of 12 total) I really don't want to spend another 6 weeks on a 5.2 quest.

There have been multiple phases of this quest chain that didn't feel like content at all. just grind fests attached to a slot machine.
The chance is random but remains the same across different difficulties. Your guildmates just happen to encounter a streak of good luck while running Normal difficulty.

The guaranteed drop from Lei Shen is meant to be an upper cap for players that experience a streak of bad luck. The discussion seems to be if this upper cap is still too long.


Pardon my butting into the subject, since this has nothing to do with Titan Runestones but instead the Secrets of the Empire. Is there any plans to possibly increase the drop rate for those of us with bad luck? I have no 'luck protection' against the Secrets and it's honestly driving me insane. I've gone a solid 5 weeks and only obtained 5. I'm very behind in dps because of my lack of a meta gem and it shows in Heroic progression.

Considering I full clear LFR before raid ... I know a few hours into reset whether or not it's been a good week. This past week was the FIRST time I got more than one Secret (I got 2) -- and one week I got nothing. It's a bit discerning for people like me who have NO LUCK at all and are hitting a wall with the 'easier' portion of this quest chain. I can't imagine how horrifying Titan Runestones will be for me, honestly.

Its just driving me completely bonkers watching people pick up the quest and immediately run LFR and get 5-6+ Secrets their first week and their luck continues into the next week and they are completing the quest in a matter of a few weeks and i'm kicking rocks around hoping next week i'll maybe get closer to my meta gem.

Is this something that is going to be addressed before 5.4 or should I prepare to spend the next 2-3+ months trying to get my meta gem?
06/07/2013 07:48 PMPosted by Rygarius
I don't believe this is true. It may be for Titan Runestones, but for the Secrets of the Empire, my guildies got them at roughly 4x the LFR rate from normal mode. To be more specific, a couple of them finished this step in half the time I did, despite starting later, only doing the first 4-6 bosses in normal mode, and never doing LFR. (I did every boss in LFR every week and very rarely did anything on normal).

The chance is random but remains the same across different difficulties. Your guildmates just happen to encounter a streak of good luck while running Normal difficulty.

The guaranteed drop from Lei Shen is meant to be an upper cap for players that experience a streak of bad luck. The discussion seems to be if this upper cap is still too long.
It is. You just dropped the 6 week 6k valor to 3 weeks, 3k valor. Why would you then say that 6 - 12 weeks is ok, if you just got done saying 6 weeks feels too long?
It pains me to agree with a horde but - Cozzene - above me has it right, My thoughts would be make both Lei Shen and who's the 9th boss? Animus? have a 100% drop rate, and a chance from the other 4 bosses. Puts a cap at 6 weeks, for those dedicated to it. or at the very least increase the chance from the other 5 bosses. It's abyssal.
I have been on this quest for 8 weeks i believe. I only have 7 runestones.
Week 1: 3
Week 2: 0
Week 3: 0
Week 4: 0
Week 5: 1
Week 6: 0
Week 7: 2
Week 8: 1
3 Weeks in a row with no drops.
5 Weeks in a row with a total of 1 drop between them.
I have guildmates that have gotten the quest complete in 4 to 5 weeks. With the Lei Shen drop i could still have 5 more weeks max to get it completed.
Please consider upping the rate in which they drop across all the final 6 bosses. I dont know if guaranteeing a drop from lei shen will be good enough.
06/07/2013 07:48 PMPosted by Rygarius
I don't believe this is true. It may be for Titan Runestones, but for the Secrets of the Empire, my guildies got them at roughly 4x the LFR rate from normal mode. To be more specific, a couple of them finished this step in half the time I did, despite starting later, only doing the first 4-6 bosses in normal mode, and never doing LFR. (I did every boss in LFR every week and very rarely did anything on normal).

The chance is random but remains the same across different difficulties. Your guildmates just happen to encounter a streak of good luck while running Normal difficulty.

The guaranteed drop from Lei Shen is meant to be an upper cap for players that experience a streak of bad luck. The discussion seems to be if this upper cap is still too long.


My guild is working on Heroics right now, so far we have 3 bosses on farm status, not impressive, but it's something.

And for us, that were always a little ahead of Raid Finders opening dates, so we should have advanced more then the average because of that, no one have more then 9 runestones right now if i remember correctly. ( Not a single player have the cloak obviously =/ )

I'm the raid leader, and i did all fights my core did, and i'm at 5 Runestones right now.

It seems way to random, with some people with less progression then us standing now with a completed quest 1 week ago, and i still needing so much.

I understand RNG, and i accept that.
It is just that i fear not being able to complete this in time for 5.4 if things keeps like this.

I got 2 weeks of 0 drops in a row, more then once.
If i drop 1 per week+1 from lei Shen, i will still need 4 weeks.
And that is if i stop being unlucky.

If my trend keeps as it is now, it will take no less then 5 or 6 weeks to complete it.

I understand that random is random, and that i may be on the lower end here, but could it be changed a little?

Think about 2 bosses giving certain runestones, and all other bosses having the chance greatly reduced to make the average roughly the same of only lei shen giving a certain runestone.

I know that the intent was to add more RNG and this is removing it, but we had a good amount of it in the time we already have the numbers that are on live.
Some people got lucky and are happy, they crafted their cloaks before anyone else did, and top guilds that cleaned normals on week 1 are also almost entirely full of ilvl600 cloaks, so the good part about RNG, the people that becomes happy because they get the prize first, already received their thing.
We can now move on to help those that were on the other side of the curve the finish it too.

Making it 2 certain drops, plus small extra on other bosses will make most people finish it in 3-4 weeks, and still give some people that good feeling of dropping an extra one from some other boss making them progress faster.

There is no damage done, and progression race if mostly over right now, even more with item upgrades now available, so there will be no damage to raiding scenario.
In fact it will help guilds that are still trying hard at a boss and are stuck.
It is. You just dropped the 6 week 6k valor to 3 weeks, 3k valor. Why would you then say that 6 - 12 weeks is ok, if you just got done saying 6 weeks feels too long?


Because there's nothing past the current quest atm? the 6k requirement was lowered because it was too long for people having to catch up. It's no longer the current part of the quest.

It was also a fixed amount, you -always- took 6 weeks to accomplish it, no RNG involved. With the runestones being drops it's only 12 weeks -max-, you still have 5 other chances per week and each successful drop lops off a whole week.

When 5.4 comes out and the last part of the quest comes out they'll probably up the drop rate or something. But as long as its the current part of the quest don't expect more than the guaranteed Lei Shen drop.
The guaranteed drop from Lei Shen is meant to be an upper cap for players that experience a streak of bad luck. The discussion seems to be if this upper cap is still too long.


I was one of those that submitted the guaranteed Lei Shen drop suggestion, and I think it's great for smoothing out those outlier cases. However, I do believe you're right in that some players are really still super far behind because the Lei Shen drop wasn't in place to start with and they might need something more.

I have three ideas:

1) When I tweeted GC about making Lei Shen guaranteed, I said maybe you could stealth buff Runestone drop rates by 5%. Thunderforged and legendary quest item drop rates are admittedly something kept behind the curtain, so I can't really speak in specifics but that might be the approach you want to take if you feel it's not enough.

2) Another option would be a high but not guaranteed chance from the other "end wing boss", Dark Animus, or even a guaranteed chance to ensure the quest takes about 6 weeks

3) If you wanted to get really creative you could apply retroactive bad luck protection to the system to get them a couple of quick Runestone or two, but that'd probably get too messy and maybe not even possible retroactively.

I think #2 is the most eloquent and best option personally. When 5.4 hits you might want to nerf this quest to take no longer than 6 weeks, so #2 could instantly solve that.

If you go with option #1 I probably wouldn't even talk about it with the public since that's stuff supposed to be behind the curtain and players are already happy with the Lei Shen guaranteed drop, for now.

#3 might be overly ambitious , but it would have been an interesting system to have in from the start, as in if you get up to, say, 6-8 bosses without a Runestone, you'd basically be guaranteed one on your next. That option could have been a stand-in for having the guaranteed drop from Lei Shen. Another reason #3 probably wouldn't work is because the Lei Shen guaranteed drop would interfere with the system.

So TLDR I think #2 is the best option, as in, awarding a high chance or guaranteed Runestone from the other end wing boss, Dark Animus. In the future for Org's legendary, I'd say you could adapt that same system of giving a higher or guaranteed drop chance from end wing bosses so players have a reason to stick around for the full run in LFR or Flex mode. It would have definitely worked well with Sigils too.

I dunno though, you have the data so I'll leave it up to you guys whether it's needed or not, but that's the approach I like. From a design standpoint I think the quest should take around 6 weeks since it's an awesome ilvl 600 cloak. A 50% drop from Animus, 100% from Lei Shen, and 15% from the others would about accomplish that.
06/07/2013 07:48 PMPosted by Rygarius
I don't believe this is true. It may be for Titan Runestones, but for the Secrets of the Empire, my guildies got them at roughly 4x the LFR rate from normal mode. To be more specific, a couple of them finished this step in half the time I did, despite starting later, only doing the first 4-6 bosses in normal mode, and never doing LFR. (I did every boss in LFR every week and very rarely did anything on normal).

The chance is random but remains the same across different difficulties. Your guildmates just happen to encounter a streak of good luck while running Normal difficulty.

The guaranteed drop from Lei Shen is meant to be an upper cap for players that experience a streak of bad luck. The discussion seems to be if this upper cap is still too long.


What's needed is some sort of adjustment/cap on the Sigils of Wisdom and Power from the lower-level raids. There's no point in Sigils past 10 dropping, since all you need is 10 of each, and there oughta be some manner of exchange or something to balance them out - one of my characters has 15 of one and only 7 of the other, and another person I encountered has the insanely-skewed number of 9 and 22. Instead of just spreading all the Sigils across all the lower-tier raidbosses, there needs to be a "guarantee" like you're implementing to the Runestones and Secrets.
The discussion seems to be if this upper cap is still too long.


Yes. Yes it is. Either boost the drop chance or allow the other 6 bosses to drop them too.
06/07/2013 07:48 PMPosted by Rygarius
The chance is random but remains the same across different difficulties.


imo, this is a mistake.

past legendary quests had better drop rates relative to difficulty (see: shadowfrost shards). why is it the same now? shouldnt harder content yield better drop rates?
If any bosses should have 100% drop rates it should be Lei Shen and Ra-den with this change.
Been on this quest for 9 weeks now and finally got my 5th one to drop.

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