Fire PvP Questions

Mage
60-80k crit off combustion because of mastery huh? I find that pretty interesting. Looks like I'll be trying lots of different things out this week.
INT -> Crit -> Haste -> Mastery

Fire pvp is not about waiting for your target to burn to death. It's about blowing them the f*** up. But hey, that's just my opinion.


I think you should play some PvP first and then get back to us with how you got on 'blowing them the f*** up' ;)


Eh? I'm one week's cap from the Tyrannical Conquest achievement. I've done plenty of pvp.
Eh? I'm one week's cap from the Tyrannical Conquest achievement. I've done plenty of pvp.

I stand corrected. You have the Bloodthirsty achievement. Though I don't see any others on your Mage. No Arenas. No RBGs. Unless the Armory is bugged.

60-80k crit off combustion because of mastery huh? I find that pretty interesting. Looks like I'll be trying lots of different things out this week.

I'm not sure what he means by that either. The Glyph does double the damage of the initial Combustion stun, but not the DoT damage itself.

Though if you stacked all your CDs, and popped a couple of 120k crit Pyros while someone is in a deep, then your Combustion could get around 25-30k per tick (provided you had 40-45% Mastery). If each tick crits, then that would amount to around 50-60k.

Though keep in mind that Combustion can be dispelled/purged.. so I'm more inclined to play without the Glyph in order to use it more frequently with higher chances of success. I'll use it in Arenas and RBGs and see how I get on.
My background:

Been playing PvP fire since Molton Core days when folks had fire resist gear, straight through to MoP. I never took arenas seriously, but I've made it to 2100 in 3s back when fire was dirt in WotLK and no one wanted to play with fire mages. Been in RBG matches with 2400-2500 rated teams. My team compositions for 2s is never what you'd consider 'good synergy teams comps,' but I consider I'm doing alright this season playing 2s with a MW monk.

Stat Priority:

Look at what matters to you most. I've noticed 2 different priorities that tend to work best with fire, stacking some haste or going with crit. If you go haste it's to work with frost armor so you can get your fireball cast down and hard cast that before a nova or Deep breaks, followed up with your hot streak. Stacking all crit just means you may not get that fireball off and instead most will likely just cast a scorch or something in conjunction with the pyro. DoTs are too easily purged and removed these days that it's hard to rely on and even want to stack mastery for pvp when it comes to fire. All around though your best bet is to go crit->haste->mastery.

Gemming/enchanting these days is still up in the air, but I've found stacking and intel over pvp power and resil is the way to go for the most damage. I could be wrong with this as I've not changed it much after they base-lined resil and lowered pvp power.

Hints/Tricks:

One thing a lot of people overlook is that against a class that can purge your buffs, the heating up proc is actually not dispellable. So if you're watching it carefully you can avoid hot streak from being purged simply by holding off from casting inferno blast until you're ready to use pyro (hopefully in a shatter situation).

Another key thing to note is that the hot streak proc for pyro actually adds damage to your pyroblast spell for that cast. Using Presence of Mind to cast an instant pyro OUTSIDE of a hot streak is sort of a waste of PoM. Instead use PoM to cast frost jaw or polymorph. While I'm not saying this is the correct order with your alter time-PoM macro, You will find (at least against healers) it to be more effective. Cast your macro after you have both a hot streak proc AND a heating up proc. hit alter time and cast a scorch or fireball into the frozen target. *[I'll address this in a sec for the hard cast first]* followed up with your first hot streak. pyro second, PoM pyro again. Hit alter time again to have another PoM and cast frost jaw, use your Pyro up and you'll likely get another free pyro. In this situation you're getting 4+ hot streak pyro's off with the added damage bonus that are mostly going to land on frozen targets for a crit bonus. Rather than using PoM for another Pyroblast that wont likely crit and do less damage anyway.

I mentioned hardcasting either scorch or fireball before automatically using up your hot streak a minute ago; this is because the delay between when your hot streak proc is removed from the cast, and when another heating up proc is applied has a restocking effect. For example, first get a hot streak proc, and then also a heating up proc. Freeze your target and instead of just immediately using your pyro, cast one of the other hard casts followed up instantly with your pyro after. you'll find that the hard cast will crit applying a heating up proc. Now normally this would be munched up by the fact that you already have that buff, but since you're also using your first hot streak it will bump your heating up proc into a new hot streak.
<god this is hard to type out correctly without confusion!>

..... much like how a frost mage can cast a frostbolt and ice lance into a nova'd target before it breaks because of the delay, you'll also get the first pyro off before the nova breaks from the hard cast giving you yet another heating up proc. This is sort of a nice way to get rolling pyros without needing to use PoM. :)

And finally I will leave you with a brief look into combustion! Sure the glyph seems like a good idea to have, but you're going to find the 3sec stun from that spell is more valuable than the actual damage it provides. a better glyph to have is either glyph of Deep Freeze/Armors/or Ice Block depending on what you use for the other 2. an interrupt up ever 40sec is much with the bonuses of the other glyphs over just a bit more initial burst. Never rely on DoT damage; especially in arenas. It's too easily removed (especially if you don't play with a spriest or lock to blanket your own DoTs. It will work fantastic against melee cleaves, but then again, that's not the worst comp you'll have to deal with nor the hardest to overcome.

Best of luck, hope this helped.
>Op
Stat Priority:

Look at what matters to you most. I've noticed 2 different priorities that tend to work best with fire, stacking some haste or going with crit. If you go haste it's to work with frost armor so you can get your fireball cast down ....

uh.. Fireball in Arenas and RBGs? well.. ok .. *smirk* :)

That's introducing the gameplay style of Arcane but with less benefits and a longer cast time (Arc Blast at 25% Haste is 1.6secs, Fireball is 1.8secs).

Also, Fire has changed since the days of WotLK. There were ways in which a Fire Mage could hard-cast and get away with it thanks to the likes of Blast Wave.

06/13/2013 11:40 AMPosted by Opnobo
DoTs are too easily purged and removed these days that it's hard to rely on and even want to stack mastery for pvp when it comes to fire.

Have you seen the combat logs I posted? Combustion DoT came 2nd in the damage I dealt in the Arena I was in, and they had a Priest healer who I'm sure was dispelling her little lungs out. Scorch was far down the list of overall damage done. If I had stacked into crit and haste, my damage output would have been a lot lower, which meant more pressure on my healer to keep me up in between pyro-chain bursts.

That said, if I find that later on it proves to be something worthless by all means I would change.. but so far all I'm seeing is high amounts of damage and pressure from Combustion, and it's getting me results.
General stat priority is Int > Crit > Haste > Mastery. There is some merit to Haste > Crit since a kill will almost always come in a Deep Freeze against competent players and you can cap Crit for shatters without really focusing on it. Fire PvP above 1600 is not about sustained damage to win the game and mastery does almost nothing for us DURING Deep Freeze.

I commend Dactylion if he is having success with mastery but it's truly the worst stat for fire pvp.

For classes that can purge, there's not much you can do. Hopefully you're playing with a resto druid so you have a lot of buffs for them to work through, remember to re-buff brilliance. Our vulnerability to offense dispels is probably the biggest weakness of the spec.
06/13/2013 04:07 PMPosted by Bravadó
I commend Dactylion if he is having success with mastery but it's truly the worst stat for fire pvp.

Oh it's not just me, but quite a lot of other Fire Mages on the 2s and 3s boards who are over 1.8k rating that stack Mastery to over 30%.

Though don't get me wrong about writing off the INT->Crit->Haste->Mastery approach .. it's proven that it can work, though I think it requires more skill and makes things unneccessarily harder for the Mage because of it's reliance on procs and crits to deal sustained damage.
Ok I may be wrong about the number here, so correct me of I'm wrong, but does our baseline crit need to be 15% to be freeze capped? (5% brilliance 5% MA) or does shatter apply to baseline only?
And can someone explain why mastery is SO terrible for fire? I don't understand why it is. Isn't it a compliment to overall dps? It's not robbing anything from our burst phase...isn't it adding to it?? And if combustions initial strike is affected by mastery why would you not want that strike (for the aformentioned 80k) to be part of that burst?? 80k hits harder than most of my pyros!

Thoughts?
And can someone explain why mastery is SO terrible for fire? I don't understand why it is. Isn't it a compliment to overall dps? It's not robbing anything from our burst phase...isn't it adding to it?? And if combustions initial strike is affected by mastery why would you not want that strike (for the aformentioned 80k) to be part of that burst?? 80k hits harder than most of my pyros!

Thoughts?


Mastery isn't terrible, it's just not good when compared to crit and haste. Both also improve ignite damage along with front loaded damage that cannot be dispelled. And mastery does not affect the initial hit of combustion, just the dot afterwards.
Does anyone know the crit % to shoot for??
Yea fire rely relies on procs, sometimes have to wait 2 minutes before I put a my burst macro to work. I have a question I'm thinking on leveling engineering this is a real noob question.....pretty sure it does but does synapse springs buff int? Looked on wow head only saw posts from hunters and rogues and alike......I assume it does just dont want to invest 30k for nothing also can grenades be used in 2s
Also if u cancel alter time does it bring you back to ur pom or??

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum