Ret T16 change to 4peice

Paladin
06/20/2013 07:58 AMPosted by Ritalynn
divine storm does not proc the bonus holy damage from mastery as ret.


Actually, everything in our base rotation except Judgment and Exorcism proc Hand of Light.
The more I think about it, the more I think this probably does still need tuning, but even in the worst case, a mediocre set bonus isn't going to make us bottom-of-the-barrel. Set bonuses just are not that large. A weak vs strong set bonus is a difference of 1-2% DPS.
and divine storm does not proc the bonus holy damage from mastery as ret.

DS benefits from Hand of Light.


Current 4 peice is more than a 1-2% dps increase.
Yes, it's 3-4% IIRC. It wasn't a comparison of "good set bonus (3-4%) vs nothing", but "good set bonus (3-4%) vs weak set bonus (~2%)". Which is a difference of 1-2%.
Don't forget, that our current 4 piece has a 40% chance to proc vs the 25% that the t16.

New set has to be off gcd, have it's proc chance poped up AND cost no holy power to cast in order to prioritize the proc over anything else.
That's 40% from CS, which we use more often than finishers, too.

If it were off-GCD, priority would be a non-issue. But yes, the current iteration still isn't at the top of the priority list (I'm guessing that the optimal priority for it is above TV3 but below builders, but I'm not very sure of that).
Yes, apologies i am at work and ninja reading / writing on these forums. What i was trying to point out is that the new set even with the buff, is well behind the current 4 set
just wear t15.
I just recently last night got my 4 piece t15.

Went from 128k dps in a simulator to 159k dps.

T15 4 peice is much more than a few %.
How significant were your upgrades, though? What else did you get and replace?

Four-piece alone did not give you a 31k DPS boost.
I just recently last night got my 4 piece t15.

Went from 128k dps in a simulator to 159k dps.

T15 4 peice is much more than a few %.

It's definitely a good set bonus, but it is literally not possible to get a 25% damage bonus from the set bonus alone: it's an ~85% to TV when it's up, and TV (including its HoL proc) is ~20% or less of our damage.
So even if it were up for *all* of your TVs (it isn't), that would be still far short of a 25% improvement. And with its actual proc rate, it would be a fraction of that amount. I don't know if you've gotten a bunch of other upgrades since your last sim, or haven't simmed since the 5.3 buff, or what, but that increase cannot be entirely attributed to the set bonus.

More importantly, whether it is as good as the specific set bonus that we have this tier is largely irrelevant. DPS set bonuses, across the board, Paladin or otherwise, have a target value of 2-4%; if you are unsatisfied by set bonuses that are only a few percent, you are missing the point.

All of which is not to say that a 1.5% set bonus is fine; it's clearly weaker than a set bonus should be. But a weak set bonus will not drop Paladins into the depths of unviability.
How significant were your upgrades, though? What else did you get and replace?

Four-piece alone did not give you a 31k DPS boost.


due to my old chest having tons of hit and crit, going to haste/expertise.

It allowed me to change up my reforges compleeeeetly, literally had to change 8 reforges to max out my stats, was able to drop like 10% hit 10% expertise down to sliiiightly above the 7.5% 7.5% cap. Gained like 4.8% haste.

All around it was an insane upgrade just for the 1 piece as well as the bonus.
Until they nerf it next tier. :/


If that happens then I will blame you, you crustacean
instead of just assuming that it is bad how about you actually try it? if you did, you would realize it's actually really good. It was doing between 8-9% of my damage actually, you throw it in there when you don't have anything up and it is actually a lot of damage. I had a 212k divine storm. on the dummy self buffed.
06/22/2013 08:25 PMPosted by Pinkpoptart
when you don't have anything up


LOLOLOL.
instead of just assuming that it is bad how about you actually try it? if you did, you would realize it's actually really good. It was doing between 8-9% of my damage actually, you throw it in there when you don't have anything up and it is actually a lot of damage. I had a 212k divine storm. on the dummy self buffed.


Who cares how much of your damage it was doing? I'm sure I could get it up to 20% of my damage if I wanted to screw around with my rotation enough.

What matters is how much of an overall dps increase it offers. I've got it at about 1.7%, and that's not working in conflict with HA and some other wrinkles. The actual bonus is probably lower still, and will go down as our haste goes up (which is a pretty clear sign of a badly designed ability, imo).

At best, this proc as it stands would be a very weak tier bonus, except in cleave situations. In fact, if it goes live as is I think in the know rets will start building an AoE set with the 4 piece and a better itemized single target set without it.
instead of just assuming that it is bad how about you actually try it? if you did, you would realize it's actually really good. It was doing between 8-9% of my damage actually, you throw it in there when you don't have anything up and it is actually a lot of damage. I had a 212k divine storm. on the dummy self buffed.


As haste goes up.. the set will lose value, an entire... tier upgrade of gear... only netting 8-9% damage is awful. You haven't read any of the things in this thread at all have ya.

Throwing it up when you don't have anything up is obviously what it's there for, we're just passing on TV damage that practically doubles it's damage. For something that is a "rotation filler" That doesn't get much use with the insane amount of haste you can get late t15 and during t16.
just wear t15.


06/21/2013 03:22 AMPosted by Lobster
just wear t15.

Until they nerf it next tier. :/


Just like they nerf T14 4pc Holy, the previews tier 4pc was that good, much better than t15 4pc. >.>
Maybe the next dungeon tier is AOE intense......
would explain the set bonuses...

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum