No Rogue Love in the latest PTR Release

Rogue
I don't like to whine, but after reading the latest patch notes, and seeing numerous changes to every other class, including talent changes, its disheartening to see so little attention being paid to us.

Does anybody else feel this way? Is it only me?
It's not only you. I've felt like we're the overlooked and underbuffed class I rolled my first character (a rogue) in Vanilla. Maybe it's on purpose...so us rogues play with a chip on our shoulder. Who knows...
It's not only you, but I disagree. We get a tremendous amount of attention paid to our concerns -- as much as every other class. The Killing Spree change alone is proof of that, as is the large number of tweets the devs answer about rogue issues every month.

We're two builds into what will be a very long PTR. It's too early to mope.
Seems like their plans to increase rotation diversity are still in development or not planned for this expansion. Unsure. We should talk about the changes we do have. Personally I don't like the direction they are heading with the Nightstalker talent. I think it would be wiser to remove the damage component and add some utility to the speed increase such as lowered stealth cd, and/or increased stealth detection, or perhaps stealth doesn't break on damage over time effects.
06/20/2013 04:59 PMPosted by Ådp
Seems like their plans to increase rotation diversity are still in development or not planned for this expansion. Unsure.

I'd be *really* surprised. Changes like that don't feel to me like something they'd want to do while an expansion is in process. GC also just tweeted earlier this week that they still haven't finalized their plans on that front.

06/20/2013 04:59 PMPosted by Ådp
Personally I don't like the direction they are heading with the Nightstalker talent.

I duno how to feel about it. I want to say it's a pretty inconsequential change, but maybe I'm missing something really important about how valuable it might be in PvP for getting an extra ability in when opening on an enemy or some such.

I like the idea of it being tied to *some* sort of damage boost, because without it, in end-game PvE the entire talent tier would be Shadow Focus or bust. If you make each option in that tier too fundamentally different, then grouping them together becomes kinda pointless.
Buffs across the board, and yet still we have complaints. :P
8 million people play WoW. Statistically, it's almost impossible NOT to have someone upset with each thing that happens (or doesn't happen). :)
There are two bug things Blizzard needs to do on this PTR for PvE rogues.
1) Nerf the GCD reduction of T15-4pc and buff combat to compensate.
2) Nerf T16 4pc for sub.

If Blizzard does those two things I'll be happy.
Technically they wouldn't be nerfing anything related to the T16, since the numbers don't mean anything yet. :)
It's not only you, but I disagree. We get a tremendous amount of attention paid to our concerns -- as much as every other class. The Killing Spree change alone is proof of that, as is the large number of tweets the devs answer about rogue issues every month.


Replying to tweets =/= doing something. They talked about fixing rogue visuals since mop beta and here we are nearly a year later and nothing happened at all with that talk means nothing.

We're two builds into what will be a very long PTR. It's too early to mope.


People have said that to rogues every beta and look how that goes, ptrs are no different on that.

Not saying they won't fix things but blind faith after years of this...

Another thing that you see is that with other classes they will change something then change their minds about it 3-4+ times over a ptr. But with rogue changes you normally see them make a change then nothing else will happen on it until it goes live unless its really buggy (Not talking about dmg tuning). I view this as putting less time and thought into rogue changes and its shown to be that way for years.
Not saying they won't fix things but blind faith after years of this...


You think we have some really big flaws that need to be corrected?
As I said in another thread, it did really bother me seeing all other 10 classes getting changes.
But, it's not like we haven't got anything so far. So, it's fine.

The only thing they can really do at this point to really upset me is release 5.4 with no changes in our level 60 tier.

2) Nerf T16 4pc for sub.


Firstly: Why!? :(
Secondly: How do you want them to nerf it? More Backstabs before the proc?
06/20/2013 06:41 PMPosted by Aeriwen
Not saying they won't fix things but blind faith after years of this...


You think we have some really big flaws that need to be corrected?

Just like in beta many of our talents are still terrible or no choice tiers. All three specs need a lot of work in pvp and combat and sub pve needs lots of work. The specs "work" as far as putting out dmg but mechanic wise they need a lot of work but many went over this many times in beta and it all went live. Theres no reason for me to go into more detail as they don't even read this forum.


You think we have some really big flaws that need to be corrected?

Just like in beta many of our talents are still terrible or no choice tiers. All three specs need a lot of work in pvp and combat and sub pve needs lots of work. The specs "work" as far as putting out dmg but mechanic wise they need a lot of work but many went over this many times in beta and it all went live. So theres no reason for me to go into more detail as they don't even read this forum.


The CM's statements otherwise directly contradict that.

There is room for improvement, but I don't think anything is completely broken or unfun. It's ok to dissatisfied with certain aspects of the game, but it doesn't do any good to throw up your hands and give up. The best thing to do is communicate clearly what you are dissatisfied with. Just expressing frustration doesn't really do anything to change the situation.

As for the visuals, I believe them that they intend to look into improving them. I have presumed that they are awaiting the new character models to be completed, as I'm guessing that that would require new spell art to look/function properly.
but I don't think anything is completely broken or unfun


Well. . . I got to say. Prey on the Weak is stupid. :)
I can't see anyone looking at the talent and thinking "What a fun and interesting talent!". haha
The best thing to do is communicate clearly what you are dissatisfied with. Just expressing frustration doesn't really do anything to change the situation.


People tried that in beta we got "we disagree". At this point its not just throw up your hands, its just sit there and wait for them to maybe do something but never expect anything.

People talked about how they didn't like Bandit's Guile in cata beta nothing was done to make it any better until mop beta this is what we are working with...

They talked about lowering deadly poison stacks in 4.1 didn't happen until 5.0...

I could go on but hopefully you got the point.
06/20/2013 07:16 PMPosted by Gankz
People tried that in beta we got "we disagree".

What are you referring to? The frustration over having to choose between Prep and Step? Because the devs ultimately reversed course on that. The frustration over Mut feeling too slow? They said that would feel better as our haste increased, and it did. It's entirely possible I'm missing something major that's clearly a problem but that the devs said was not (and *didn't* subsequently admit was a mistake on their part), but I can't recall. Help?

People talked about how they didn't like Bandit's Guile in cata beta nothing was done to make it any better until mop beta this is what we are working with...

They talked about lowering deadly poison stacks in 4.1 didn't happen until 5.0...

So, you just gave two examples about how they said they wanted to do something and then they did it. I'm definitely missing your point.
Lets not forget that 8 million players play te game.

8 MILLION

Let that sink in a bit. No really, let it sink in. Noone has ever even seen 8 million of anything. You don't see 8 million grains of sand, you see a playground.

Its easy to forget that the company has so many players to try and make an entertaining experience. If you had thier job and wanted to keep it, you might be a little cautious about what changes you decide to make to the game. You can't really blame them for taking it a little slow.
So, you just gave two examples about how they said they wanted to do something and then they did it. I'm definitely missing your point.


lol really? The point was the time frame that those took.

What are you referring to? The frustration over having to choose between Prep and Step? Because the devs ultimately reversed course on that. The frustration over Mut feeling too slow? They said that would feel better as our haste increased, and it did. It's entirely possible I'm missing something major that's clearly a problem but that the devs said was not (and *didn't* subsequently admit was a mistake on their part), but I can't recall. Help?


I really Don't feel like typing out all the giant fail mop beta was for rogues. But going on what I just said they had all of this for 6 months of beta and didn't even try to start on fixing any of until 5 months into the expansion being live. So nearly a year to start work on problems that were there from the start of beta? If that doesn't speak volumes on how much effort they don't put into rogues I don't know what would.
Lets not forget that 8 million players play te game.

8 MILLION

Let that sink in a bit. No really, let it sink in. Noone has ever even seen 8 million of anything. You don't see 8 million grains of sand, you see a playground.

Its easy to forget that the company has so many players to try and make an entertaining experience. If you had thier job and wanted to keep it, you might be a little cautious about what changes you decide to make to the game. You can't really blame them for taking it a little slow.


That would be a great statement if they worked on every class this way but they don't.

But look this has gone on to much the main point to the op is don't go into patches expecting lots of rogue changes as there are rarely many at all. There will be many builds with changes to nearly every class but rogues its just what they do or don't do lol.

Just as an example there was one point in mop beta that we had 2 months no exaggeration of builds with 0 rogue changes at all.

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