Switching to Holy at 90, questions!

It feels like just yesterday that I posted in this forum for the first time, hoping to one day join the ranks of level 90 paladins :) Well now I'm almost there and I am switching to Holy at level 90 and have some questions from the more "seasoned" players on these forums which weren't answered from the various guides I've read:

1) Holy Prism vs Light's Hammer. I know for min/maxers there is a huge difference between the two, but for practical purposes, will either of these really negatively affect you at all if you choose one over the other out of preference? I don't know which one I like yet (just from descriptions, haven't tried them yet) but I just wanna know if I would be gimped for, say, prefering Holy Prism and taking it because it's inferior to Light's Hammer.

On a different note for Holy Prism, could someone instruct me on how to make a macro for the ability? I'm going to try to describe what I want it to do as best as I can. I want it to cast on the target of my focus (if I have a focus), but at my target if the focus does not have a target or if I don't have a focus. But even further I would like it to cast on myself while holding alt. Would this be possible to do?

2) Does Eternal Flame healing transfer to your Beacon of Light target? If so, does that mean it wouldn't make sense to put EF on your beacon?

3) Level 75 talents. Which one do you roll with and why? I like the general use out of DP because it's constant, but at the same time it's really RNG based which could bone me in certain situations (but at the same time, should I ever really be in a situation where DP not proccing would be the difference between life and death?) then between HA and SW I don't know which one to pick if DP is weaker than those two.

4) What are the primary weaknesses with the Holy paladin, and how do you cope with said weaknesses?

Thanks for answering :D
07/11/2013 06:04 PMPosted by Larsardion

Wow, I haven't heard that term outside tabletop.

<EDIT>: Oh, and I have no real advice. I run Retribution / Protection. Holy is beyond me.
I'm relatively new to holy as well so I'll just state my opinions

1. I kinda like lights hammer because you can place it anywhere you want.

2. Not sure, but it is still ideal to place it on tanks anyway due to the damage they take.

3. I choose avenging wrath because it's one less thing to worry about.

4. IMO having to ideally stay in melee range and not having enough holy power to deal with a certain situation. If you can't use crusader strike to generate holy power you have to rely a lot more on holy radiance which can be costly if spammed. Also you have all the problems of a melee dps otherwise (dodging mechanics and such). It also really sucks to not have enough holy power for big burst damage but this should not be too much of a problem if you know when big damage comes (or watch your dbm closely enough)
1. I swap between lights hammer/holy prism depending on fight, I take lights hammer on fights where the raid stacks and were in need of the AoE healing (i'm looking at you megaera). Otherwise I take holy prism.

I don't use a macro for it so I cant be of help there.

2. Yes EF does transfer to your beacon target, but having a hot on the tanks (whom I presume you have the beacon on) is never a bad thing.

3. I used to take DP for the free procs that could save me some mana during fights. I recently swapped to HA and I haven't looked back, it is amazing for burst healing during phases where you really need it, and it has a relatively low cooldown, its an amazing talent.

4. I find holy paladins struggle with spread AoE healing, and healing on the move particularly, you just have to watch your positioning and figure out what you can cast when to overcome these, as we do not have many instant cast spells (just two if specced into prism), and our main AoE heals require the raid to be stacked (HR > HR > HS )
I'm not 90, but I main Holy so figured the more replies the better you can formulate your thoughts.

1. Not really sure but Light's Hammer seems better to me (I may be wrong).

2. Yes, and as stated before it basically heals even more so why not.

3. I use Divine Purpose because the free mana procs are worth it in my eyes. If I can get powerful heals off for free, then I'll take that chance.

4. AoE healing is my biggest struggle which I don't think will get any better once I hit 90. But in saying that, if I pop cooldowns and whatnot, I find then that my aoe healing is nothing to worry about.
4. IMO having to ideally stay in melee range and not having enough holy power to deal with a certain situation. If you can't use crusader strike to generate holy power you have to rely a lot more on holy radiance which can be costly if spammed. Also you have all the problems of a melee dps otherwise (dodging mechanics and such). It also really sucks to not have enough holy power for big burst damage but this should not be too much of a problem if you know when big damage comes (or watch your dbm closely enough)

You don't have to rely on Holy Radiance and you do not have to use Crusader Strike, or be in melee range. You use Holy Shock which is only a 6 second CD, talented 3.

In addition to that, you don't need holy power in order to do big heals you have Divine Light and Flash of Light for that reason, if you have a beacon on the target needing heals then it generates holy power. It's really not a problem.

As far as your questions:
1. I think it's really situational and role dependent. However, I believe Holy Prism would be a lot more useful. Light's Hammer is only 10 yards area so really the only time it would be useful is if everyone is stacked up; if they are stacked up then LH would excel in terms of healing. HP is more practical, you can drop it on a tank and it does more healing and some added dps nearly guaranteed to hit. Unless you're a raid healer doing 25m I'd say HP is your best bet.

2. EF does work with Beacon, both the HoT and the direct healing. However, in terms of Mastery only the direct heal will affect mastery. What most paladins are doing is what is called EF Blanketing. Basically you put a 1-3 Holy Power EF on the members of the raid and "blanketing" them with the hot (it lasts 30 seconds so you can continuously do it). In addition to that you can, with Glyph of Beacon, put it on multiple targets quicker. It's far more effective for aoe healing compared to Holy Radiance because Holy Radiance only has a 10 yard range. In raids this is most effective for AOE healing, in 5 mans not so much but it is situation depending on the encounter you are in.

3. DP is definitely the better choice. Simply because of EF blanketing.

4. Paladins can do strong AOE healing with EF Blanketing, they have among the best single target heals, and they have fast heals that hit for a lot. I'd say the only weakness in a paladin is how people choose to play them, meaning, I don't think a lot of people play them to their true potential. AOE healing used to be a problem because paladins don't have something to compete with spells such as healing rain or efflorescence etc. but if you play a paladin correctly and situationally then you should have no problems.
Thanks for all your answers guy, almost there!
1) It's situational. Fights where the raid stacks like Megaera Lights Hammer is best, on others when the raid is spread or constantly moving Prism is better. Keep tomes in your bags and swap talents depending on the fight.

2) Yes EF transfers through beacon. I try and keep a 3 HP EF on both tanks at all times and EF blanket the raid with 1 HP EFs. Also remember to swap beacon when the tanks swap.

3) Honestly I believe it's personal preference on this one, whichever fits your play style better. I've used both and my preference is DP. Them DP procs can come in handy and really boost your HPS. It's nice when the raid is taking heavy AoE dmg and you get a nice chain of DP procs for 3 HP LoDs, or having free back to back EFs on a tank or raid member that is taking heavy fast dmg. The drawback of DP is the RNG of it, however it procs a lot making it possible to get some nice chains when you use your HP spells with 3 HP.

Some like HA because they can control when it comes into play and the 30% healing buff. The drawback is you have to generate a HP and because of the 18 sec duration you'll really have to know how to squeeze out them HPs to get it's maximum effect, also you'll probably only be able to use it 3 times max during most fights.

4) Healing on the go can sometimes be difficult due to our long cast times and lack of instant casts as can managing HP. After doing it a while you should get the hang of it.
Hey, I've seen many others posted useful tips aswell, but here is my view on your questions

1) I'd pick Prism on arenas, sometimes go with Hammer for the slow (against melees obviously, but not that melee is any problem to HPalllys). Hammer for raid healing. For PvE Hammer is pretty damn good when you can have at least half of your raid inside it. All that healing is going through beacon to your tank

2) Honestly what I'd say here is pretty much what everyone else said.

3) I think for PvE DP is very damn good, since you'll have to at heal lets say "all the time". If you're going PvP HA can be quite good if used together with your PvP trinket to counter a burst for instance. + you can use HA in PvE too if you want to do massive AoE bursts.

4) As Messer said, long cast times are bad. In PvP since I focus Crit>Haste>Mastery (PLEASE Don't do that in PvE), most of my Holy Shocks crit and give me a damn fast next healing. But from what I've noticed, HPallys healing is way below (in numbers) to others (Disc Priest for instance. In this character here, I could easily heal for bout 160k with no CDs and no crits [Since disc priests don't crit]. On my HPally that is WAY better geared than this priest, it takes me a divine light crit to heal 175k. Both without battle fatigue). + talking more bout PvP, our CC is quite bad(blind has a cast[which sucks cause most other healers have an AoE instant CC to run away from stuff] and Rep is on a 15s CD.) and most of our best D is to counter melee.

If you have any doubts on Stats, Glyphs, etc overall, go over to Noxxic.com or Icyveins.com.
+ If anyone could test about what I've said (HPallys healing being quite below others), and put results here, that would be great! I may post a comparative on "equivalent heals" and their outputs on both this Disc Priest and my H Paladin(Amenofis - Tol Barad).
//EDIT: if you think I should repost this answer anywhere else, please let me know//

OK I couldn't wait much so I did a comparison (is that written right? lol) between my Disc Priest(Zackrisson - Tol Barad) and my Holy Paladin(Amenofis - Tol Barad). Please take a look at both's gear before. If you don't want to, I'll make things simpler: Priest is 464 ilvl full PvP, with uncommon(green) gems and no enchants at all, and H Pally is at 495 full PvP, with full rare(blue) gems and fully enchanted. Sorry for my stupid comparison between Holy Shock and Penance, just ignore that if you want to.

  • So what did I compare with what exactly?
  • Compared Holy Paladin's Flash of Light with Discipline Priest's Flash of Light.
    Compared '' Holy Light with '' Heal.
    Compared '' Divine Light with '' Major Heal.
    Compared '' Holy Shock with '' Penance(full heal, not each tick).
    I didn't compared priest's critics since all it does is create a shield for that value. (lets say, X heals for 10k, if it crits, it will heal for 10k and create a 10k shield, roughly saying)

  • So how did it go?
  • Flash of Light(Holy Paladin) healed for 62k non-crit and 132k crit. Flash of Light(Discipline Priest) 56k.
    Holy light healed for 45k non-crit and 90k crit. Heal healed for 37k.
    Divine Light healed for 86k non-crit and 175k crit. Major heal healed for 90k.
    Holy shock healed for 52k non-crit and 107k crit. Penance healed for 103k.

    When it comes to AoE Healing, obviously, Paladins heal alot more (disc priests prayer of healind heals for bout 27k, while my holy shock with one charge heals for more on AoE).

    So what does that say? Holy Paladins are not the "Single-target healers" in the game anymore(I think we all knew that), but, Disc Priest's single target healing is blowing ours by the !@#... I've seen similar numbers with Resto Shams too(Similar to DPriest ones).

    I know this comparison is quite vague but, I guess it says something right? Thanks for taking your time for reading, and, I hope something is done quite soon... (I want to do 2v2 and 3v3 on my HPally so bad, but, that seems so impossible...)

    If you guys are interested, I may soon test out with Resto Shamans. I don't think a comparison can be made with druids and monks since their healing system is way too diferent (I don't think they have a "Low heal - Mid heal - Heavy heal" basic healing system so it makes it quite hard to find something useful for us to compare).

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