Ability bloat is getting cray cray

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Considering the context, in game:

Game menu -> Action Bars -> Show Action Bars -> Click as many as one needs, profit.

Adjust as need be; it's actually quite nice, I typically have all six bars on as soon as possible on all my toons. Just makes life easier.
Warlocks and healing priest (that actually USE everything in its proper place) are the two MAJOR offenders in my eyes... Lord locks have SO MUCH GARBAGE that needs cleaned out.
My bars are all filled thats for sure, but I dont feel its too much just yet.
Reducing ability bloat is something that's been talked about fairly recently in interviews and tweeters, it's also something we've attempted to address as recently as this expansion. It's a balance, of course, between having depth of complexity through abilities without making the complexity just a ton of different buttons to push. There's also perception issues of taking away abilities, even if they're never used, as undermining the viability or versatility of a class. Classes are largely defined by their abilities, so taking things away can be a touchy subject. It's something that we will need to give another go at addressing, because classes getting new abilities as level caps raise is essentially a given. In any case we tend to save these kinds of big sweeping changes for expansions.


Perhaps you need to start making the new abilities more like "modifications" to pre-existing abilities. Spruce them up, give new spell graphics, and added effect?
Having less buttons to press makes the game worse not better.

Get a gaming mouse, use ctl/shift modifiers and then you have 36 key binds on your mouse alone.

Please don't dumb the game down more.
Warlocks and healing priest (that actually USE everything in its proper place) are the two MAJOR offenders in my eyes... Lord locks have SO MUCH GARBAGE that needs cleaned out.


They do?
Like what?

Dark Bargain? Unending Resolve?
Demonic Gateway? Circle?
Their demons?

What would you suggest they take away from the warlock kit, for no other reason than because there are too many buttons?
Honestly, I'm quite happy with my abilities, each ability has a use and is different. Everquest 2 did it badly, where you had 10 single target dots, all roughly the same, 5 AoEs, 4 Point-blank AoEs, 6 encounter AoEs, 4 direct damage spells, and 7 debuff spells.

So yeah... I'm ok with my abilities. :)
Having less buttons to press makes the game worse not better.

Get a gaming mouse, use ctl/shift modifiers and then you have 36 key binds on your mouse alone.

Please don't dumb the game down more.


Listen to this panda.
It's a balance, of course, between having depth of complexity through abilities without making the complexity just a ton of different buttons to push.


Currently this is all there is to wow's "complexity". A ton of buttons and cooldowns to push. We spend more time looking at our actions bars / buffs / procs then we do at the actual encounter.

Guild wars 2's combat system ofters optional complexity with only 8 buttons to push. The complexity comes from knowing when to use abilities that create synergy with other classes, therefore creating powerful spells and buffs. I wish the devs at blizzard would adopt this style or something similar because I really hate playing my UI. I have WAY too many buttons to manage. I want to play the game and be able to see whats going on around.
One of the problems is when you have to write targeting macros (b/c tab/click targeting is just not viable in any dungeon, scenario, PvP, or raid). There aren't nearly enough macro slots for all of the spells. They could make mouseover targeting standard (or a toggle in the spellbook), and now it's not that big of a deal, b/c you have plenty of macros for other stuff (like your random mount button).

That said, based on my own personal preference, I'd like to see about 22ish buttons. 30 is definitely too many. 14 is a little too light, but better than 30.
Reducing ability bloat is something that's been talked about fairly recently in interviews and tweeters, it's also something we've attempted to address as recently as this expansion. It's a balance, of course, between having depth of complexity through abilities without making the complexity just a ton of different buttons to push. There's also perception issues of taking away abilities, even if they're never used, as undermining the viability or versatility of a class. Classes are largely defined by their abilities, so taking things away can be a touchy subject. It's something that we will need to give another go at addressing, because classes getting new abilities as level caps raise is essentially a given. In any case we tend to save these kinds of big sweeping changes for expansions.

What if you give specs iconic abilities that relate to their class? (specifically CC in this example):
Warlocks:
- Demo : Fear
- Affliction : Fear
- Destruction : Mesmerize

Mages:
- Frost : Deep Freeze
- Fire : Deep Freeze
- Arcane : Polymorph

The idea is to keep the iconic abilities, but reduce the total number of available buttons per spec. Something along this design would, hopefully, reduce PvP complexity on Blizzard's end. (PVE will be fine, PvP is the issue when it comes to ability bloat.)
Having less buttons to press makes the game worse not better.

Get a gaming mouse, use ctl/shift modifiers and then you have 36 key binds on your mouse alone.

Please don't dumb the game down more.


I have better things to spend money on. Besides, ability bloat is a problem that needs to be addressed (and will be, from the sounds out it).

Learning how to make a macro so the game does a bunch of stuff in sequence for you is the epitome of "dumbing things down". If you can't do it on your own, then you aren't as good as you think you are.
STOP DUMBING DOWN THE GAME.

Like seriously, if you compare Destro's buttons from Cata or even wrath compared to now the difference is retarded. Going from having 12+ button rotation to barely even 5 is just stupid. If people want a simple 5 button game go play something else or pick a class with less abilities.
08/27/2013 11:09 AMPosted by Bashiok
Classes are largely defined by their abilities, so taking things away can be a touchy subject.

Like many hunters that still haven't forgiven the theft of Volley to see it given to mobs/raid boss.
I have better things to spend money on. Besides, ability bloat is a problem that needs to be addressed (and will be, from the sounds out it).

Learning how to make a macro so the game does a bunch of stuff in sequence for you is the epitome of "dumbing things down". If you can't do it on your own, then you aren't as good as you think you are.


You don't even need a gaming mouse. I have one, but it only adds a couple extra buttons and I use them exclusively for movement and a focus-mouseover macro.

I don't use /castsequence either, and I feel sorry for those that limit themselves to it. I do, however, use macros to help compress things into a single button (such as my Pet Utility for my stable, like the Disarm, Interrupt, etc - but that's only because I want it keybound and hate the unresponsiveness of the pet bar). The rest of my macros are for communication purposes. Vent info, Loot Rules, as well as Random Mount macros with a failsafe option if it attempts to summon a mount I can't ride in that particular zone.

Macro =/= dumbing it down.

Like many hunters that sill haven't forgiven the theft of Volley to see it given to mobs/raid boss.


Every time Lei Shi hides I sit there trying to figure out what I should do on my hunter. My first instinct is "VOLLEY!" then I think "oh wait lol"
STOP DUMBING DOWN THE GAME.

Like seriously, if you compare Destro's buttons from Cata or even wrath compared to now the difference is retarded. Going from having 12+ button rotation to barely even 5 is just stupid. If people want a simple 5 button game go play something else or pick a class with less abilities.


Yeah, remember how many people played Destro in Cata? Oh wait...
Not that my opinion matters or anything, but I feel the need to comment.

As a DK, I'm not exactly swimming in abilities, and I like that. I'd much rather have a small selection of diverse and, most importantly, useful abilities than a spellbook full of situational "oh crap" buttons.

At the same time, I like flavor abilities. Corpse Explosion wasn't explicitly useful (even if I used it for AoE threat back in Wrath), but it was fun, and I routinely exploded every corpse after I was done looting them.

In conclusion, give me a solid roster of useful abilities and a solid roster of flavor.

If your pet is Tenacity or Ferocity, then I could see you needing an extra 1-2 slots.

You still should have action bar space, and I'm genuinely curious what your interface looks like if you don't.


Since I don't PvP, I only have fero/tenacity pets.
And it's not a question of lack of action bars, I use bartender so I have plenty of action bar space. The problem is one of keybinds.

When in a raid, I can't afford to mouse click, which means the abilities I need to call up has to be available in a keybind. And it has to be something I can hit quickly with just my left hand (since my right hand is going to be using the mouse to strafe/move).

Realistically, I can only access about 8 keybinds with my left hand alone, at least not without doing some weird finger gymnastics.

Which means for my fury warrior, I'm usually ok. For my hunter, the only saving grace is that I generally do NOT have to move as much with my hunter (being ranged, most of the time, I can stand in one place and pew pew--only having to move if a specific mechanic targets me or targets someone near me).

If I had to deal with as many keybinds as my hunter on my warrior, I would be effectively screwed (or my rotation would be largely busted, or I stand in a lot of bad).
Yes, it's absurd, especially for certain classes.
Not that my opinion matters or anything, but I feel the need to comment.

As a DK, I'm not exactly swimming in abilities, and I like that. I'd much rather have a small selection of diverse and, most importantly, useful abilities than a spellbook full of situational "oh crap" buttons.

At the same time, I like flavor abilities. Corpse Explosion wasn't explicitly useful (even if I used it for AoE threat back in Wrath), but it was fun, and I routinely exploded every corpse after I was done looting them.

In conclusion, give me a solid roster of useful abilities and a solid roster of flavor.


I have a question for you then, since you expressed your opinion well.

How would you feel about simply not getting a load of situational abilities, versus having them for a short-while and then have them taken from you? Even the oddest button that you will probably only press a few times in your entire time in WoW?

Would you rather get them at a decent pace and keep them, or get something that saves your butt once only to have it removed exclusively because "too many buttons"?

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