Hillsbrad/ Aerie Peaks Cataclysm question

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I think that one of the primary differences between Southshore and Taurajo other than what Vyrin pointed out above is the manner in which it was destroyed.

Taurajo was destroyed in a common manner. Soldiers came in, killed the defenders, and then burned the structures. Yeah, that sucks, but it's par for the course in war.

Southshore was destroyed in a manner that is the spitting image of what Arthas and the Scourge did. A catastrophic plague and a seemingly unstoppable army of horrific undead attacking humans in their own homes is an extraordinarily sensitive subject for the Alliance for obvious reasons.

Combine that with the fact that Hillsbrad Fields has basically been converted into a smaller version of Naxxramas and quite frankly, what is happening in Hillsbrad would strike an Alliance player, and Alliance NPC's, harder than its Taurajo counterpart.

Taurajo was pretty par for the course for war. Southshore and Hillsbrad Fields is, to a human, like getting a glimpse of Hell.

No, they originally said in an interview that it was going to be destroyed by a tidal wave.

And since when has Blizzard always been upfront and honest with what they're doing in every zone in an upcoming expansion? It's not out of the question that they just wanted to tell people Southshore would be gone, but wanted to keep the reasoning secret for a time.


And we know from the beta that Duskwood doesn't have even a -fraction- of the polish that Hillsbrad has. That alone is insulting.

Second, are you forgetting the Tarren Mill/Southshore battles?

And the questing polish could be fixed; I've admitted that a lot, Vyrin, so I don't see why you're attacking that point.

No, I'm not. However, the Horde questing in the zone made it very clear, from day one of Vanilla, that the Forsaken were there to wage a war; the Alliance's quests in Southshore were completely unrelated to the Horde/Alliance conflict in the region, with only a few small exceptions.
Horde collected thirty human skulls. Alliance killed Naga and Murlocs.

There's a disparity in initial purpose in this case; the Horde was clearly there to try to drive the Alliance out. The Alliance was focused on other threats.
I don't see how you're surprised that the Horde won, here, lore-wise.

As an aside; No, I'm not getting into a "Horde always kill Alliance, Alliance never kills Horde in quests" debate. We've had them before. I agree you guys need more of them. But looking at Hillsbrad as it is on live, and as it has been since day one, there's nothing really there to indicate that the Alliance would have won in the zone.


It is insulting. It's one thing to have the Horde destroy an Alliance town. It's another for it to serve no real purpose in the story. It doesn't even serve as a rally point for Alliance players; the Alliance doesn't even mention it.

When the Alliance destroys Taurajo, the Horde get multitudes of quests to attack the Alliance that are there, culminating in killing the person responsible.

I already said that you guys should have more NPCs using what happens as a rallying cry.

The attack itself, however, isn't insulting. The lack of portrayal elsewhere may be, but the loss of the town itself isn't.
As to the purpose it serves in the story; it demonstrates what exactly the Forsaken are about. That entire zone - that's what it's about. The Forsaken are there to win, at all costs, and they don't care about moral quandaries or anything like that. They care about results; in this case, those results being enemies dying. That's pretty much the entire point of the zone as a whole.

Does it serve a purpose Alliance-side? Not yet. It definitely should - I'm not disagreeing with you on that. But it definitely has a purpose in the story, as far as its portrayal in Hillsbrad goes.

In Hillsbrad, we've got one Alliance town that was plagued, and another that was turned into a horrific pit of torture and despair. Not only does the Alliance not get ANY opportunities to set things right, but these places actually become -Horde quest hubs.-

There's a disparity here, and Hillsbrad is where it's most evident.

The "set things right" issue is entirely up to zone balance. And as I have said countless times;
Yes. Zone balance coming ahead of lore can suck at times. But game balance still takes precedence over everything else. Crying and ranting about it isn't going to change that, so there's only so much we can discuss, there.

As I have said many, many, many times; The Alliance should get quests in Arathi to take revenge on any and all Horde forces they find in the region, and a major component of what happens in the Hinterlands should be outrage and fighting back against the Forsaken for the events in Hillsbrad and Western Plaguelands. Does it happen yet? We don't know, as not much has been released out of Hinterlands and Arathi (though Arathi currently looks a bit disappointing).
I'm not saying you guys should get nothing.

But you are not going to get Hillsbrad, because of the necessity of game balance.
Arathi looks -A BIT- disappointing?
Arathi is a waste of time. I got bored of it and moved on >.>
Edit: Duskwood isn't a "very large" zone, though. It's decent, but not huge.

In comparison to Alterac, it's huge. Which was my point. :P

Arathi looks -A BIT- disappointing?

I'm trying to avoid the more... reactionary comments. :P
But you are not going to get Hillsbrad, because of the necessity of game balance.


Incursions into a zone (Hillsbrad) for quests from an adjacent zone (Arathi) in order to incite Alliance anger and get a small sense of retribution for what occurred isn't the same as having the Alliance reclaim the zone.

That would be a decent solution.
But you are not going to get Hillsbrad, because of the necessity of game balance.


Incursions into a zone (Hillsbrad) for quests from an adjacent zone (Arathi) in order to incite Alliance anger and get a small sense of retribution for what occurred isn't the same as having the Alliance reclaim the zone.

That would be a decent solution.

True, but Arathi's still a... what, 40-50 zone?

Hillsbrad is 20-25.

It'd work with phasing, but that's it. And I honestly want to see some kind of war around Thoradin's Wall, because it should be there.
I'm just not sure it's going to happen.
True, but Arathi's still a... what, 40-50 zone?

Hillsbrad is 20-25.

It'd work with phasing, but that's it. And I honestly want to see some kind of war around Thoradin's Wall, because it should be there.
I'm just not sure it's going to happen.


Phasing would be the only solution, but it's a viable one. Arathi needs new content anyway.

Galen's Fall is at Thoradin's Wall, so it would seem that the Forsaken have control of it. And with the Alliance sitting in a hole in the ground, they don't seem to mind all that much.

Beef up Galen's Fall and make it into a point of contention between the two sides? That, and the Alliance needs another questing hub in the zone. It's 2:1
Arathi is just stupid Blizzard failed in the zone.
Arathi is just stupid Blizzard failed in the zone.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/15/feature/4643/page/1

valnoth actually talked about that in an interview.

The FAQ mentioned a handful of the classic zones that have been given a big revamp. How pervasive has the overall revamp of the content been? Is it a case of, you've taken a few zones that you thought were maybe suboptimal and given them a massive facelift, or is it a massive facelift across the board? Am I going to start playing again and get involved in quest lines that I've played through before or is *everything* new?

I would say 90% of the world has been completely changed. It's kinda funny. When we first started in alpha and we hadn't quite got everything out the door yet, players were kinda skittish and they were like "I don't know. This is a crazy idea. Are you guys really going to do this?" They were afraid of anything that was nostalgic to them being removed, even though the quests were terrible or whatever, or some of them *really* terrible. And as we started implementing more and more, what ends up happening now is anytime they run into a zone that hasn't been completely revamped, they're like "What the hell is this?"

A zone that sticks out for me is Arathi Highlands. So players go through Tirisfal as undead (which has been about 80% redone) and Deathknell, which is the starting one for the Forsaken (which has been completely redone), and then they get into Silverpine (which is completely *completely* redone), and then they get into Hilsbrad (again, completely redone), and then they get into Arathi, which has gotten very light hits ... and they are just irate. And I can't blame them. You know, it's one of those things that's just like "there's only so much time in the day".

One of the comparisons that we throw out a lot is that Lich King shipped with about a thousand quests, maybe a little less actually. This one's shipping with over 3500. So, it's a *lot* of stuff. And there is a lot of triage that has to happen. What do we spend our "design dollars on"? And believe me, if we had more time, and another five years, we'd really really ... . We do wanna get this game out to you, the fans, before they are "old and grey".
True, but Arathi's still a... what, 40-50 zone?

Hillsbrad is 20-25.

It'd work with phasing, but that's it. And I honestly want to see some kind of war around Thoradin's Wall, because it should be there.
I'm just not sure it's going to happen.


Phasing would be the only solution, but it's a viable one. Arathi needs new content anyway.

Galen's Fall is at Thoradin's Wall, so it would seem that the Forsaken have control of it. And with the Alliance sitting in a hole in the ground, they don't seem to mind all that much.

Beef up Galen's Fall and make it into a point of contention between the two sides? That, and the Alliance needs another questing hub in the zone. It's 2:1


Alliance manages to boot the Horde out of Arathi, and dailies to make incursions into the opposing zone become available?
It doesn't change the fact that the zone is horrible, I still have false hope that maybe in a patch it will be updated.

Alliance manages to boot the Horde out of Arathi, and dailies to make incursions into the opposing zone become available?

That'd be really cool, actually, and is along the lines of what I'd suggested months ago when the first rants about Arathi were getting posted.
Galen's Fall is destroyed.
New Alliance fort is built (or Stromgarde gets partly-retaken).
Hammerfall stands, but is hardpressed.
Wandering mobs of Alliance troops along the roads, with scattered groups of Forsaken ambushers wandering off the roads. They meet at times, battles happen.
Thoradin's wall becomes a warzone.

@Quirnheim:
Like I said on the first page; if it had been anyone other than the Forsaken who had "won the zone," there'd likely be a lot less complaining. People dislike the method of the loss more than the actual fact of it, from my point of view.
Vae, you've got a point. No one likes the Forsaken's method because it feels like cheating, to be blunt. They're employing tactics -similar- to a force the entire world just destroyed with supreme prejudice, and they're getting away with it. The Argent Crusade isn't raining down on them with the fury of the Light, the Cenarion Circle isn't making nature rise to crush them for plaguing the lands, the Earthen Ring isn't smashing their skulls in for corrupting the elements on the lands, and the Horde above all is literally shrugging and turning a blind eye.
Alliance manages to boot the Horde out of Arathi, and dailies to make incursions into the opposing zone become available?


I would have no qualms with this. But it would have to be something more moderate so as to make it a viable zone for Horde questing, given it's in their EK leveling flow, I do believe. Vaethria's idea had my support when I first saw it a while back.

I don't mind the loss(I AM Forsaken, after all) but all I wish is that it revived some Alliance anger. Have them get FIRED UP AND ANGRY, like the Horde do about Taurajo.


I'm not certain, but I get the impression that if it hasn't been added in yet, it won't be, unless it's in a later patch. Arathi, Silithus, and Dustwallow are all completely untouched.
Have them capture Forsaken civilians and EXECUTE THEM! Maybe even make it a teenaged-Forsaken or something. Have the Alliance show NO MERCY AT ALL to them, as they should do if this happens. It would give them something to be proud of more and more.


I wouldn't be proud of my faction stooping to these tactics.
http://cata.wowhead.com/quest=28389
Does winning in Felwood make the Alliance feel better?


EDIT: To be fair elenie, the forsaken do prefer to do damage control on the areas the plague hits to keep them habitable, they haven't actually corrupted any elementals yet since it usually disperses just fine, Southshore is apparently an exception judging by the questgivers reaction.
http://cata.wowhead.com/quest=28389

Does winning in Felwood make the Alliance feel better?


If I remember correctly - that is where goblins assault the "new" Worgen town that replaced Talonbranch Glade and they're pushed back. Not really a major battle over an iconic or important place =/

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