Outdated Prot Guide, Please remove.

Warrior
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So, I read the thread on the old forums because I was curious.

Jathine presented a convincing case for using Rend/TC/B&T to improve single-target threat. You should credit him in the OP for his contribution. I think a link to the spreadsheet would be appropriate as well. After all, without his input, you wouldn't have a clue about the boost B&T provides.
After all, without his input, you wouldn't have a clue about the boost B&T provides.

And you wouldn't have either.


I'm failing to see why this post was necessary. I never claimed to know of B&T's single-target potential independent of Jathine's info. Other than not citing sources/showing supporting evidence, I commend the OP for putting together a Prot guide for Cataclysm. I'll even give it a thumbs-up and a bump.

I'm a very scientific thinker. It just bugs me when people make claims without backing them up or citing their sources. In the end, I'll test it out myself and see what suits me best.
Yeah just as I thought in the beta patch rend seems to be pretty good for single target threat which isn't the case on the live servers atm.

Thank you for your input!
Thanks for some of the numbers on this. I also think links to the spreadsheet and the supporting post would be good. Basically, this is a completely new rotation after 5 years of the same rotation, so the numbers are going to be pretty important.

Given the AP scaling of Rend/TB, their usefulness should depend heavily on the amount of vengeance you have stacked. This would not doubt change the way you 'gain agro' during the first 15 secs of a boss/trash pull to the 'hold agro' period that occurs after.
Just did a quick test; looks like it updates on refresh.
I think ya'll are looking way to far into warrior tanking. It's not all that complicated. I think this guide makes it seem harder than it really is. Sure I get tips from guides like this, but I just can't help seeing some things that just don't make since to me when I try to vision it in game with me in control of my character.

Me, I like the trial and error method. Right now, I have a few talents that I don't particularly like and will respec to fix that. I'm sure I'll respec a few times to get it right to match my individual play style.

I think with guides like this, it sets a standard for everyone to follow, which is bad since everyone plays the game a little bit differently. My tactics for tanking are different than the next guys. For example, I read all over the place that Blood and Thunder is horrible to have, yet I use it, and can't imagine not having it.

Sure bosses are single target battles, but to get to those bosses, you normally need to go through multimob pulls, and with all these over zealous AoE dpsers, it seems like a must to me. To my logic, if you have Blood and Thunder, Thunder Struck seems like a great thing to have.

Anyway, those math figures are great and all, but the way people play differently, those math problems are going to get solved differently and the end result isn't what is logical on paper. Find your play styles people, run with what ever is comfortable to you and what works best with your individual style. This is a game after all.
Playing via trial and error is fine, I'm not one to tell people how to use their leisure time. The point of this isn't for people like you who are just messing around with the game, leveling alts, etc. The point of this is for people who want to maximize their character, which is what many, many people see as the entire reason to play a game such as WoW.

Where are you getting B&T being a bad talent from? It's pretty much the best sustained aoe threat talent we have (and it doesn't make thunderstruck much better) as well as a single target gain post cata. I'm also obviously not expecting people to go through the math, which is why I'm writing out the conclusions for them.

I don't mean to come off like a *!%@ here, but this is also more relevant to end game mechanics than leveling 5 mans, so hardly seems even directed at you. 5 mans have never been considered cutting edge content, and are hardly even difficult after a fairly short time at level cap.

PS: Math is math. if you're getting different answers with the same variables, you're doing it wrong. This is especially true in a controlled virtual environment like WoW.
Does the Warbringer macro in the guide still work? 4.0.3 seemed to break mine. I had to modify it to this:

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=15 Charge(Battle Stance), Intercept, Charge(Battle Stance);
/cast [nomodifier, help] Intervene


I know it looks weird, but for some reason macroing Charge w/o (Battle Stance) doesn't seem to work.
I just tested it and it works fine for me without any additional changes.
I believe you failed to take into consideration that most of the Engineering enchants (except for the glove enchants) now stack with the normal ones.

In addition, the cogs and hydraulic pumps in Cata will provide massive stat boosts, making it a very good profession.
I believe you failed to take into consideration that most of the Engineering enchants (except for the glove enchants) now stack with the normal ones.

In addition, the cogs and hydraulic pumps in Cata will provide massive stat boosts, making it a very good profession.


The cog system essentially is only making up for the lack of secondary stats on the profession helm, which will be replaced fairly quickly by raiding. Unless they make cogs of more actual use than has been seen, they're pretty much irrelevant. I'm also definitely keeping the engineering tinkers stacking with enchants in mind; They're just lackluster in comparison to the currently available alternatives (the absorb tinker's 5m cooldown is excessive, and the glove enchant averages out to 2.3%~ Effective DR @ 50% DR if used on cooldown.) Trust me, I want engineering to not suck as much as you do. But I can't just make it happen. :(
Fixed the entry level 85 gearing section with JP Costs. Still a couple drops I'm unsure of, otherwise that section is mostly done.
[TAL3] Talents:



2/2 Blood and Thunder - Very significant for AoE threat. A Single target threat/damage gain, as well.


how is this a single target threat gain?
[TAL3] Talents:



2/2 Blood and Thunder - Very significant for AoE threat. A Single target threat/damage gain, as well.


how is this a single target threat gain?


@ OP - This is why you cite sources and provide evidence for claims like this. Now you're going to have to start all over again with this guy.

@ Moozart - I asked the same question earlier in the thread. There's a bit more info if you follow the links and read the copy of this thread on the old warrior forum. I haven't tested it out personally (yet), but Jathine's math looks ok at first glance.
[TAL3] Talents:



2/2 Blood and Thunder - Very significant for AoE threat. A Single target threat/damage gain, as well.


how is this a single target threat gain?


@ OP - This is why you cite sources and provide evidence for claims like this. Now you're going to have to start all over again with this guy.

@ Moozart - I asked the same question earlier in the thread. There's a bit more info if you follow the links and read the copy of this thread on the old warrior forum. I haven't tested it out personally (yet), but Jathine's math looks ok at first glance.


yea, i read all that stuff, and it never showed how the talent "blood and thunder -When you Thunder Clap a target affected by your Rend, you have a 100% chance to affect every target with Rend." effects single target threat
Rolling a rend with thunderclaps every 9 GCDs constitutes a substantial threat/dps gain. You can look at the math on the previous page, if you really care to understand why.
Great info!

/bumper cars
I like how people don't believe some of the stuff Dellingr is saying.

Pretty sure when you're that geared and have a bunch of server first+LoD whatever you say is right, because, you know, you know how to play the *##*ing game.

God damn.

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