Gameplay marginalizing lore characters.

Story Forum
Recently Blizz said that there was no place for Velen in the current story and that's why we haven't seen him for a long time. Sylvanas has the same issue but from the opposite side of the morality spectrum, as they have made her too toxic to use in the game.

The one that vexed me the most though was Thrall. In WC3 Thrall was about peace, working together, and fighting the burning legion. There was no place for that in WOW so they had him sit silent in Orgrimmar while the Horde went to war against the NEs, let the Forsaken join, and made Orgrimmar a major Warlock stronghold.

People say they hate him now because he changed, or made bad decisions. Unfortunately, gameplay demands made his character non-viable as WC3 Thrall wouldn't have allowed the stupid faction wars and pvp BGs to happen. I would almost argue that Thrall should have been removed sooner, as the Horde under him should have been more of a "Frontier Alliance" than the "WC2 Horde" that it was in Cata-MoP.
You say this as though people weren't complaining about Dalaran not bombarding Orgrimmar during the Siege.

And as though people were not complaining about not being able to play through the scenarios of major lore events recorded in the books.

When part of the reason they're migrating major lore events over to the books is so that they can tell the story with the proper context that it demands without compromising it for technical or gameplay reasons.

You just cannot have it both ways. At least not perfectly. There is a balance and in that regard between gameplay and immersion and Blizzard has straddled it admirably as far as the technical issues are concerned.

I'd like you all to keep in mind how they went out of their way to include Lorthemar in this content patch and thereby catapulted him to stardom (he is now winning polls for becoming Warchief, probably because of the unbearable volume of flippy masses infesting the Horde, but that's another story). Blizz said that they felt that the Draenei have been neglected.

Our feedback has clearly made an impact, but I think it's for the reasons of gameplay and in fact for other technical reasons that things cannot be ideal. The other half of that equation is just Blizzard having inferior storytelling abilities. In my opinion that's where you should target your criticism. Blizzard has just neglected a variety of loose plot threads.

And to be honest part of the reason the Draenei have been neglected is because frankly they're just a bunch of refugees. Their entire existence in WoW is in itself a contrivance, so I ask that you please give it a rest.
It's really very simple.

If major characters can't fit in any given global conflict in some form, don't create them. It inherently means that the character doesn't fit the franchise.
Bleh, a Warchief being useless is bad enough. A warchief holding you BACK...

/Vomit
Bleh, a Warchief being useless is bad enough. A warchief holding you BACK...

/Vomit

I don't think you know how WC3 Thrall would have held you back. Take Garrosh for example. In the Ulduar trailer, Thrall simply goes, "Control yourself!"

WC3 Thrall would have smacked him across the face with the Doomhammer, froze him to the ground when he fell, and ordered him not only to respect the person who helped save his demon blooded father (Jaina) but behave his damn self in the face of, oh, I don't know, an awakened Old God and an ongoing war against the Scourge.

Thrall was far too tolerant of Garrosh's outbursts, and when Grom had such outbursts, he sent him away because he was a risk to the mission at hand. Just like he sent Grom and the Warsong Clan to play lumberjack rather than fight with the Horde, he should have sent Garrosh back to Kalimdor to maybe play with the Quilboar or something.
he should have sent Garrosh back to Kalimdor to maybe play with the Quilboar or something


If he focused his efforts more on Ashenvale (provided he had no warchief duties to attend to), he could probably take it.
If he focused his efforts more on Ashenvale (provided he had no warchief duties to attend to), he could probably take it.


Could have and should have are two different things. But this is all terribly off topic.
09/09/2013 11:28 AMPosted by Delurk
he should have sent Garrosh back to Kalimdor to maybe play with the Quilboar or something


If he focused his efforts more on Ashenvale (provided he had no warchief duties to attend to), he could probably take it.


If by probably take it you mean take a barren husk of land useful to no one because the Night Elves already said they would burn it down before letting the Horde have it, sure..

He could probably take the smoldering remains of a once massive forest with no one to cultivate and return it to it's former glory.
He could probably take the smoldering remains of a once massive forest with no one to cultivate and return it to it's former glory.


That wouldn't stop the meathead from declaring Victory.
09/09/2013 11:55 AMPosted by Grimauna
He could probably take the smoldering remains of a once massive forest with no one to cultivate and return it to it's former glory.


That wouldn't stop the meathead from declaring Victory.


It would also probably get the meathead overthrown, since the Orcs, in theory, only followed him because he promised stuff like, I dunno, food and stuff from Ashenvale. And glory.

Probably not a lot of glory in burning forests.. BBQ? Ohh yeah, if you get to the burned animals fast enough. but glory? Only if someone hired a stripper who didn't mind splinters.
There's no place in the story for Velen in a war between factions in which his faction supposedly is unifying to defeat the horde.

Velen's more neutral than Thrall.
It would also probably get the meathead overthrown, since the Orcs, in theory, only followed him because he promised stuff like, I dunno, food and stuff from Ashenvale. And glory.

Probably not a lot of glory in burning forests.. BBQ? Ohh yeah, if you get to the burned animals fast enough. but glory? Only if someone hired a stripper who didn't mind splinters.


Compared to Durotar and Orgrimmar, a burned down Ashenvale is freaking paradise. Plenty of charcoal to roast boars on, and probably cooler than Org in the summer.
There's no place in the story for Velen in a war between factions in which his faction supposedly is unifying to defeat the horde.

Velen's more neutral than Thrall.


Lets be fair here.. There isn't a place for anyone in the story except for Varian.. Everyone was smooshed in. Didn't really matter if the plot fit the character.

I mean, hell, the Alliance even, you now, being in need of unified leadership is never shown. Especially since Varian was the Supreme Allied Commander in WotLK, and thus, in theory, already...had the whole "got our respect in leading our troops" thing under way.

Least, I hope they did.. Zombie plague and all. I would think the Alliance would have enough thinking prowess to work out having a military leader they don't trust lead may not be the best idea.

"But wait!" you might say. "That means the entire Alliance arc in MoP has been a disjointed rehash that made so little sense because the role Varian is trying to prove himself capable of filling was proven two expansions ago, OR, the Alliance thought a zombie apocalypse was a good time to test a dude they didn't trust"... And you know what? You would totally be absolutely right.

Hey.. Yeah, that's a good point. I think someone needs to say that.
"But wait!" you might say. "That means the entire Alliance arc in MoP has been a disjointed rehash that made so little sense because the role Varian is trying to prove himself capable of filling was proven two expansions ago, OR, the Alliance thought a zombie apocalypse was a good time to test a dude they didn't trust"... And you know what? You would totally be absolutely right.


Didn't think of it that way. So, that means both sides are getting a total rehash of previous storylines.
I don't think you know how WC3 Thrall would have held you back. Take Garrosh for example. In the Ulduar trailer, Thrall simply goes, "Control yourself!"


I think this might be the first time I agree with you.

WC3 Thrall took the Frostwolves and the Horde and made war against the Warsong when Grom aligned himself with the Legion.

In Vanilla he allows the Warsong free reign in Ashenvale out of fear of the clan going rogue and causing a civil war, I believe was the reason he never recalled the Outriders.

So either Thrall in Vanilla was very timid and paralyzed by indecision allowing hundreds to die over something that could have been settled diplomatically, or he is a manipulative hypocrite who claims for peace with the Alliance to maintain good terms with Jaina while claiming his hands are tied when it comes to cessation of hostilities.
09/09/2013 02:23 PMPosted by Grimauna
"But wait!" you might say. "That means the entire Alliance arc in MoP has been a disjointed rehash that made so little sense because the role Varian is trying to prove himself capable of filling was proven two expansions ago, OR, the Alliance thought a zombie apocalypse was a good time to test a dude they didn't trust"... And you know what? You would totally be absolutely right.


Didn't think of it that way. So, that means both sides are getting a total rehash of previous storylines.


Complete with draenei being told to go take a hike.
I'd like you all to keep in mind how they went out of their way to include Lorthemar in this content patch and thereby catapulted him to stardom (he is now winning polls for becoming Warchief, probably because of the unbearable volume of flippy masses infesting the Horde, but that's another story). Blizz said that they felt that the Draenei have been neglected.

They also said the Draenei (and Worgen) had no place in the siege, as if those 2 races didn't suffer at all at the hands of the Horde in general and Orcs in specific.

And to be honest part of the reason the Draenei have been neglected is because frankly they're just a bunch of refugees. Their entire existence in WoW is in itself a contrivance, so I ask that you please give it a rest.

"just a bunch of refugees" could be used to refer to any number of races in game, including Orcs who have received quite a it of attention these last two expansions.
Well, let's get the ghostcrawler argument out of the way to begin with...

The gameplay is repetitive and boring. The story isn't interesting. If Blizzard was really focusing on these, then they need to clean house.

They may then stop making excuses for ignoring two thirds of the Alliance, abusing a sixth of it, and anointing the last part of it as "grand babysitter who shalt never have its own life".
Kyalin, if you don't like the gameplay and you don't like the story, then what is it that you're getting out of the game that's worth the subscription?
09/09/2013 02:23 PMPosted by Grimauna
"But wait!" you might say. "That means the entire Alliance arc in MoP has been a disjointed rehash that made so little sense because the role Varian is trying to prove himself capable of filling was proven two expansions ago, OR, the Alliance thought a zombie apocalypse was a good time to test a dude they didn't trust"... And you know what? You would totally be absolutely right.


Didn't think of it that way. So, that means both sides are getting a total rehash of previous storylines.

Sadly, yes.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum