Proving Grounds Tips? (Holy Pally)

General Discussion
Hi there. First off, I'm already a raider. My group is not pushing heroic progression, but we aren't completely terrible either - We finished normal ToT somewhere between 1 and 2 months before the patch came out. I heal with a resto druid and a holy priest. The resto druid (raid leader) refers to me as our best healer all the time. I just say all of this to [hopefully] avoid comments saying things like "if you can't get gold you shouldn't be raiding" that I've seen plenty of in certain threads.

Now, proving grounds. What do I do? The best I've done so far is wave 6 or 7 of gold, IIRC. I interrupt / stun mobs when I can, but around that time there's just too much damage going out for me to focus on interrupts. It feels like the waves are overlapping and mobs are coming too early. Any tips for a holy paladin to get through this?

some info:

I'm currently running Selfless Healer with enough haste to have a 5 second holy shock / judgment CD with everything else put into spirit/mastery in my ilvl 537 gear. Obviously this gets scaled down. I'm using Holy Avenger right now, but have tried Divine Purpose as well.

I'm using the beacon glyph, flash of light glyph, and divinity glyph. I plan on swapping beacon for the hand of sacrifice glyph soon (at least for PG - will swap flash heal glyph for raids)

I scrounged up some old gear from my bank / item recovery to try and optimize a lil more for the scaled down ilvl. With this gear, I was gemmed for spirit/mastery and reforged for the same. I picked gear pieces that had mastery on them already. Any piece without mastery got reforged into mastery. I ran Eternal Flame, don't remember if I used Holy Avenger or Divine Purpose. This seemed to go a little better but I still got stuck around the same wave.

So what do I do?
I know I can raid, why can't I get through Gold? The DPS challenge was cake.

(note: Unless I'm mistaken, I know selfless healer with a haste build isn't the most optimal choice, but I wanted to try something different with the new changes - so far it's working out just fine in raids, Working on Sha of Pride right now, jumping into SoO again tomorrow evening)
I'm having exactly the same problem on my pally currently. I wipe on wave 6-7 beause there's just too many mobs that my group fails to kill in time. I made different macros to stun different NPCs that spawn: large flamecaster>small flamecaster>illusionary hive singer. I try to interrupt as much as I can. But to get the interrupt off I need to cancel my cast. I agree that at about wave 6 interrupting is impossible because you are too busy trying to keep group alive.

The main problem I think is that my group FAILS to kill mobs in time and we end up with too many. I had to re-gem to all spirit not to run oom so fast but that doesn't fix the main problem though that my group's DPS suck at killing the mobs.
I 1 shot bronze through gold with 0 fails on this character that I haven't played in months.

Make sure you are using cooldowns properly, holy avenger during AOE waves and eternal flame the entire group.

Another tip, you can BoP the bleed that requires them to be healed to full. This makes it much easier on your mana, no need to spam heals on them just bop it off.

If you can, put some denounces into mobs every now and again to make waves go faster; make sure you interrupt mobs, stun and blinding light when possible.
Botan, a couple questions for you (or anyone else that might know) -

1) Did you do this on the first day? I've heard that the healer PG has been bugged, but that it was fine on the first day. I have no idea if this is true or not, just asking to see if there might be any truth to it. (And regardless of the answer: Did waves overlap due to dps not finishing the previous wave in time?)

2) Not so much a question, but I wasn't aware of such a bleed. That sounds like a raid frame issue on my end, hopefully once I fix that it will make a noticeable difference. (I hate Grid2, I understand how to configure 'Grid' better, just haven't gotten around to redownloading it)
I 1 shot bronze through gold with 0 fails on this character that I haven't played in months.

Make sure you are using cooldowns properly, holy avenger during AOE waves and eternal flame the entire group.

Another tip, you can BoP the bleed that requires them to be healed to full. This makes it much easier on your mana, no need to spam heals on them just bop it off.

If you can, put some denounces into mobs every now and again to make waves go faster; make sure you interrupt mobs, stun and blinding light when possible.


I one shot bronze and silver and now stuck for days on gold. Difficulty scaling working as intended?
2) Not so much a question, but I wasn't aware of such a bleed. That sounds like a raid frame issue on my end, hopefully once I fix that it will make a noticeable difference. (I hate Grid2, I understand how to configure 'Grid' better, just haven't gotten around to redownloading it)

It's called Chomp.
09/15/2013 01:35 AMPosted by Kharra
1) Did you do this on the first day?
2nd or 3rd day IIRC.

Did waves overlap due to dps not finishing the previous wave in time?)
Happened a few times, most waves were killed on time though.

I wasn't aware of such a bleed. That sounds like a raid frame issue on my end
Yep, when the borrowing adds come out of the ground and hit a random party member it puts a bleed on them that requires they be healed to 100% before it disappears. Just bop it to save yourself mana.
09/15/2013 01:39 AMPosted by Botan
1) Did you do this on the first day?
2nd or 3rd day IIRC.

Did waves overlap due to dps not finishing the previous wave in time?)
Happened a few times, most waves were killed on time though.

I wasn't aware of such a bleed. That sounds like a raid frame issue on my end
Yep, when the borrowing adds come out of the ground and hit a random party member it puts a bleed on them that requires they be healed to 100% before it disappears. Just bop it to save yourself mana.

Good to know about the bleed, I'll fix up my raid frames to display that. Though, I'm doubting if the bleed is what's killing me. It certainly doesn't help, but it's the overlapping of waves around wave 6/7 that's really getting me. I can't manage interrupts etc when there are spawns on both sides due to the next wave starting.

But, we'll see.
but it's the overlapping of waves around wave 6/7 that's really getting me
save as many cooldowns as possible for then. make sure you divine plea whenever you are under 70% mana, dont wait until you are low. When possible use holy shock/denounce on the mobs. I used lights prism on the tank off CD and it aoed the mobs too.
I'm gemmed a little differently now, but when I did bronze-gold I was gemmed for throughput (mastery), and with my gear scaled down was running with ~7k spirit. (My shaman friend recommended eating/flasking spirit for Endless, and if you're running OOM, I'd recommend it for gold as well.) Overall, I think a mastery/spirit build works at the low gear level in Proving Grounds better than a haste build. (Tried endless with my new spirit/haste build and it was pretty rough. Only made it to wave 7-8.)

Fist of Justice for adds (the ones who do AoE sonic and the pyroblast guys), clemency (to BoP off the bleed at least 2x, and to have many HoSacs for the tank). I did this Eternal Flame spec, but I have a feeling Sacred Shield might be better for Proving Grounds, since you can keep it up on 3 of the 5 in the party.

Divine Plea doesn't hinder healing done now, so use it on CD once you get to sub-80% mana (ish, depending on spirit). I was also using the SPA trinket and staggered that with my Divine Plea usage.

I rolled my throughput CDs early and often to hep save myself mana over the course of the waves.
I'm having to use CDs before then to make it that far. Though maybe if I manage that bleed I can save something. I'll find out tomorrow (laying in bed right now). I feel that I shouldn't have to deal with an overlap at all though, as dps I don't have to, not sure about tanks.

And I am using Divine Plea anytime I'm under ~75-80%.
If you could post on your paladin so I could take a look that would be good. But I'll go ahead and give you a few tips I've picked up:

1) Go buy yourself some spirit gems/flasks/feasts(steamer) until you can get about 11-12k spirit while in Proving Grounds.
2) Go to timeless isle and grind mobs until you get the Contemplation of Chi-Ji trinket (it's really useful)
3) Be sure to practice. You'll get a bit better at managing cooldowns/mana/reaction time the more you try it.

To be honest, I got a bit lucky when I got gold. I went into the last wave with about 70% mana thanks to Divine Plea and the Contemplation trinket. I ended up going oom during that phase but was able to squeek by, by throwing hand of protection on the tank and low heals.
< Kharra
Keep in mind this is my normal set. I suppose I should be using the mastery gear, or at the very least the helmet so I have a functioning meta gem.

Edit: Going to bed now, I'll check this thread again tomorrow, and give an update on if displaying the bleed on my raid frames made a difference or not (and other things)
< Kharra
Keep in mind this is my normal set. I suppose I should be using the mastery gear, or at the very least the helmet so I have a functioning meta gem.


Ok, overall seems good. You shouldn't have to get a whole new set/meta gem just for it just do a bit of tweaking to your current gear and you should be fine.

Few things:

1) Spec out of Selfless healer, SS or EF would be much better as you could use them more often.
2) Make sure you are using hand of purity on the tank on cooldown. I specifically found it useful when the big mogu guys came out and enraged.
3) I would switch that beacon glyph to Protector of the Innocent (that way EF/WoG heals you a bit when you heal the others = less spells you need to cast to cover yourself)
I can't help with paladin specific things, but general pointers:

1) Efficiency is key. Don't waste mana on overhealing if you can at all help it. But by the same token, don't spam your quick expensive heal either.

2) If you have interrupts/CC (and you do), use them. Keep the mantid and ordos enemies from casting as much as you can, it cuts down on the damage that's being thrown out by a lot. But don't blow them right away, as the NPCs generally interrupt properly on cooldown.

3) Put removing the Gnash debuff off of allies as your top priority. Letting them be will drain your mana rapidly as you dump mana into keeping them merely alive.

4) Dispel quickly. Never let let the frost bombs detonate unless there's no choice (this applies only to endless mode, though, where in one wave composition there are two of those casters)

5) Don't panic too much on the conqueror waves. If you've been keeping on top of things, the tank will pop shield wall when they enrage and that'll mean you don't have to scramble for healing cooldowns right away. If you see conquerors in the next wave right after, then you want to use a cooldown.

6) Optimise talents for small group healing as opposed to raid healing. If you're dead set on suceeding, reforge and regem to maximise your spirit. The latter part shouldn't be needed to beat gold however.
Gold is pretty cake, endless starts to get a bit more intense though...

you ALWAYS have time to interrupt, if you don't make time...interrupting is much more important than healing - i prefer the reduced cooldown on hoj as part of my spec since you can only repentance/fear one of the mobs anyway, the rest are immune to cc, and the one you can cc is fairly weak anyway
Personally i've made it quite easily to gold. Then, trying on endless i've made it to wave 25 (trying to get the 30 wave title) with a haste/spirit build

Some advice?
1.- Quick reflexes. Stun every aoe add you get, or at least rebuke him.
2.- The hand of sacrifice glyph is quite useful when you got the big adds (sometimes your tank is going to use shield wall sooner than expected, that 30% dmg reduction saves a lot)
3.- The problem with the double debuff can be solved sometimes when you have it. Save the dispell for the other npc member and dispell yourself with divine shield (also for the bleeding effect)
4.- When you're facing more than 10 waves, Unbreakable Spirit is more useful to me than clemency. Stacking it with glyph of divinity, can get 10% mana every 6 min... sometimes that lay on hand can save a lot of mana.
5.- Separate cooldowns. Get Holy Avenger for aoe dmg, divine favor + avenging wrath for different situations and guardian for last resource (you'll gonna need the extra haste for the guardian to really heal)

And above all, a lot of practice.
If you see conquerors in the next wave right after, then you want to use a cooldown.


The waves aren't random. There are conquerors in waves 5,7, and 10 (and therefore 15,17,20 etc. in endless) Wave 7 will be two small conquerors that both enrage at the same time. This ends up being damage about equal to one large enraged conqueror.

When you're facing more than 10 waves, Unbreakable Spirit is more useful to me than clemency. Stacking it with glyph of divinity, can get 10% mana every 6 min... sometimes that lay on hand can save a lot of mana.


You can drink every 10 waves when you leave combat. Having 2 hands of sacrifice and 2 hands of protection (to remove chomp) will be more practical in endless than 10% of your mana every 6 minutes. If you're having mana problems still you need more spirit gems.

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